NATEPERKINS.TV: Presents iReport on Black in America
NATEPERKINS.TV: Presents iReport on Black in America
NATEPERKINS.TV ((Add Embed Player To Your Site))
Broadcasting 24 hour 7 days Barack Obama's Presidential Campaign Speeches
NATEPERKINS.TV ((Add Embed Player To Your Site))
Former Atlanta's TV/Radio Host Nate Perkins Presents Black Men and Black Women & Family In Black in America iReport series lived from Atlanta. Nate Perkins examines the successes, struggles and complex issues faced by black men, women and families -- 40 years after the death of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. Watch this video and make a matching donation of $10: http://www.nateperkinslive.com/links.htm In my work with emerging leaders, I've discovered many ways in which marketers have totally missed the mark with Generation Y consumers by not acknowledging their motivators. So let me clue you in to the ways in which you can effectively connect with this growing market of savvy spenders. Generation Yers want to know that you care enough to find out what makes them tick.this generation of youth born after 1977 represents more than 70 million consumers in the United States.
NATEPERKINS.TV: OBAMA SUPERDELEGATES BLOG's TV
The Reporter-Blogger TV "Embed BARACK OBAMA'S Campaign '08 Now"
http://obamasuperdelegates.blogspot.com/ Obama's Superdelegates reluctance to "go negative" on Hillary Clinton during the Democratic primaries led political analysis to wonder how John McCain ( or Hillary, for that matter) could learn to "fight nice" against Barack Obama. http://www.nateperkinslive.com/link.htm
NATEPERKINS.TV: Rev Jesse Jackson Four Points Demands To Barack Obama »
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-44375
NATEPERKINS.TV: Rev Jesse Jackson Four Points Demands To Barack Obama » Rev Jesse Jackson Four Points Demands To Barack Obama nateperkins. tv | Nate Perkins Live [*TV*] Channel Broadcasting ... NATEPERKINSTV: withRev Jesse Jackson ... Nate Perkins TV ... NATEPERKINSTV:
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Barack Obama - the Teflon Candidate
It’s been a rough two weeks for Barack Obama, but his poll numbers remain strong and unchanged. Is he a Teflon candidate? Consider what’s happened since he clinched the Democratic nomination and Hillary “suspended” her campaign.
Pay Pal:
Martin Luther King Quotes
Social-Networking Television (IPTV Channel) Nate Perkins Enterprises Broadcast's understanding what local TV needs is the key to success and NATEPERKINS.TV's unique IPTV platform is perfect for this purpose.
NATEPERKINS.TV Says...
The Goal is to launch a Local Social-Network IPTV Channel of Atlanta-Metro community that will generate in Major USA Cities and Europe. http://www.nateperkins.tv or http://www.nateperkinslive.com
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NATEPERKINS.TV (blog-tv) said... NATEPERKINS.TV: ELITIST OBAMA BLOG TV
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Barack Obama : : Change We Can Believe In | NATEPERKINS.TV: with ...
Official Website of Barack Obama 2008 Presidential Campaign. NATEPERKINS.TV: with Barack Obama's "But this is our moment. This is our time" Clinches Presidential Nomination: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nateperkinstv/gG5hvK
NATE --
Every four years, the Democratic Party assembles a platform that outlines the party's position on a number of issues.
Traditionally, the drafting of the platform is not open to ordinary people.
This year, that's going to change.
For two weeks in July, people all across America will hold Platform Meetings in their own communities to discuss the issues and share their input. The outcome of these meetings will be reviewed by the Drafting Committee as it creates the final Platform.
No political experience is required. Your thoughts and experiences are all that matter, and they will shape a platform that -- like this campaign -- is owned by the people.
Sign up to host or attend a Platform Meeting in your neighborhood:
http://my.barackobama.com/listening
This year, ordinary people like you will gather in their homes, community centers, places of worship, and even coffee shops to discuss the issues that matter to them and help decide what should be at the heart of the Democratic platform for change.
The input we get from these meetings will help shape the platform at the Democratic Convention in August.
Platform Meetings are a great way to connect with fellow supporters and help write the next chapter in the history of the Democratic Party.
We'll make sure you have all the resources and support you need to succeed. All you need to provide are your ideas for America and your hunger for change.
To get started in your community, just log onto My.BarackObama.com and go to our Platform Meetings page. (If you don't have a My.BarackObama.com account, creating one is simple and easy.)
Sign up to host or attend a Platform Meeting now:
http://my.barackobama.com/listening
I hope you'll take advantage of this opportunity to make your voice heard in the political process.
Thank you for all that you do,
Barack
MediaZone.com, Inc.
Dear NATE --
Tonight is the crucial financial reporting deadline for June.
Right now is the time to step up and own a piece of this campaign. I need your help to take on John McCain, the Republican National Committee, and the shady so-called 527 groups that are dedicated to attacking this campaign using millions of dollars in unregulated contributions.
Please support this movement by making a donation of $25 by Midnight tonight:
https://donate.barackobama.com/deadlinejune
Together we are setting a new standard for how presidential campaigns will be organized and funded.
For the first time in a generation, a presidential campaign is putting staff in every single state for the general election. Our staff and the Obama Organizing Fellows are getting to work right now to build on grassroots energy in all 50 states.
And -- unlike John McCain -- we're going to do it without contributions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs that have held too much power for far too long in this country.
By putting our organizational and financial future in your hands, it's clear who will be responsible for our success and who we will be accountable to in the White House: the people.
But in order to match the resources of our opponents, we're going to have to do more and get more people involved than ever before. Your donation of $25 right now will help make that happen:
https://donate.barackobama.com/deadlinejune
I'm counting on you to take the lead and build this campaign.
The stakes couldn't be higher, and every American who hopes for something better from their government is counting on us.
Thank you,
Barack
NATEPERKINS.TV: iReport on Black in America
By NATEPERKINS.TV (blog-tv)(NATEPERKINS.TV (blog-tv))
Official Website of Barack Obama 2008 Presidential Campaign. NATEPERKINS.TV: with Barack Obama's "But this is our moment. This is our time" Clinches Presidential Nomination: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nateperkinstv/ ...
- http://cubatvchannel.blogspot.com/
NATE --
The crucial midnight deadline is just hours away.
The results of our fundraising from this month will be used to gauge our strength against John McCain and the RNC.
But there's another reason why every dollar you give right now is so important -- we're building the first 50-state presidential campaign in a generation.
By making your first contribution before the midnight deadline, you'll be investing in the growth of this unprecedented movement at a time when the resources are needed the most.
Please show your support by making a donation of $25 right now:
https://donate.barackobama.com/midnightdeadline
It's been less than four weeks since Barack became the presumptive Democratic nominee, and here's what supporters like you have already made possible:
Staff and offices in 21 states
134 campaign offices open across the country
Nearly 1,000 field staff on the ground, supported by more than 3,500 Obama Organizing Fellows
And we are literally growing every day.
Your contribution today is an investment in the organization and staff we'll need to expand our operation in all 50 states.
Every single staff member on the ground and every single new office we open will help us to register more new voters, bring more volunteers into our campaign, and build our grassroots movement all across this country to help Democrats win up and down the ballot in November.
That's why a dollar you give today to help us build our campaign will do more and have more of an impact than a dollar you give in October or November.
Make a contribution of $25 to invest in our 50-state campaign:
https://donate.barackobama.com/midnightdeadline
Thanks for everything you're making possible,
David
David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America
NATEPERKINS.TV: Presents iReport on Barack Obama 24/7
-- Amylouise in Coeur d'Alene, ID
"About thirty-five Obama supporters, former Clinton supporters, Republicans, and Independents gathered in Key West, the southernmost point in the United States. A number admitted that they have not been active in politics for forty years, and the two youngest got extremely choked up as they described friends in Iraq. People left with a commitment to register voters, hold future house parties, get out the vote, and do whatever they can to elect Democrats all the way down the ticket."
-- Beverly in Key West, FL
"I had over 50 show, with others wanting to come!! A wonderful gathering of friends, community members, neighbors (even my son's first grade teacher) and lots of new faces in my house, coming together to see how they could become part of the process of change they are feeling with Barack Obama. I am so grateful for the opportunity to show my two children, ages 5 and 7, that this is how America works. Thank you for the opportunity to help. I look forward to more in the future."
-- Walker in Sherman Oaks, CA
"We met neighbors that we had never met. We all shared one common goal -- black, white, old, young, all united for change. Wow! It was magical to see our young college students and graduates so involved and it was rewarding to see our seniors revitalized and charged with enthusiasm and hope. We can't wait until the next event on Independence Day."
-- Barbara in Birmingham, AL
Watch the video of Unite for Change events like these and see how exciting it can be to get involved in your community:
http://my.barackobama.com/ufcvideo
Working together, we can have a huge impact -- not just on the election, but on the way politics works in America.
Thanks for your support,
Jon
Jon Carson
National Field Director
Obama for America
NATE --
I wanted you to be the first to hear the news.
At the Democratic National Convention next month, we're going to kick off the general election with an event that opens up the political process the same way we've opened it up throughout this campaign.
Barack has made it clear that this is your convention, not his.
On Thursday, August 28th, he's scheduled to formally accept the Democratic nomination in a speech at the convention hall in front of the assembled delegates.
Instead, Barack will leave the convention hall and join more than 75,000 people for a huge, free, open-air event where he will deliver his acceptance speech to the American people.
It's going to be an amazing event, and Barack would like you to join him. Free tickets will become available as the date approaches, but we've reserved a special place for a few of the people who brought us this far and who continue to drive this campaign.
If you make a donation of $5 or more between now and midnight on July 31st, you could be one of 10 supporters chosen to fly to Denver and spend two days and nights at the convention, meet Barack backstage, and watch his acceptance speech in person. Each of the ten supporters who are selected will be able to bring one guest to join them.
Make a donation now and you could have a front row seat to history:
https://donate.barackobama.com/yourconvention
We'll follow up with more details on this and other convention activities as we get closer, but please take a moment and pass this note to someone you know who might like to be there.
It will be an event you'll never forget.
Thank you,
David
David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America
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NATEPERKINS.TV: Presents iReport On Black In America @ http://www.nateperkins.blip.tv Showing until Jul/Aug/Sep/Oct 2008/9
Hi Nate,
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God Don't Like Ugly Movie Review and Music Listening Party Hosted By
Ulysses Grant Salett!!
We would like to invite you to participate in the God Don't Like Ugly Movie Review and Music Listening Party hosted by Ulysses Grant Salett, Salett Productions, and M.M.W.M.C.-Square Knot Consulting. The event will take place tonight: Saturday July 12, 2008 at 3117 Linsley Ct. Conyers Georgia, 30094 at 6:30pm. Should you happen to need directions contact Tony at 678-388-9502. For more questions about this wonderful event contact 1-800-742-1803 Ext. 6. Please dress in casual attire and don't hesitate to bring a healthy dish!!
Thank you,
Shonell Peoples-Salett
UL's Upcoming Gigs
7/18/08: Birmingham Alabama, Location TBA
7/26/08: Spartanburg South Carolina, Country Hearth Inn
8/10/08: St. Petersburg Florida, Location TBA
8/23/08: Atlanta Georgia, Location TBA
Visit the New Ulysses Grant Salett website !!
Now you are officially able to personally check in with UL to get updates about his upcoming projects by visiting his new website: www.salettproductions.com.
God Don't Like Ugly movie Actor search!!
UL is now in search for actors for his new and emerging hit film God Don't Like Ugly. If you are interested in auditioning visit www.salettproductions.com and click on opportunities.
Become a UL Promoter!!
Did you know that when you promote UL's performances and services that you will recieve a 20% earning? This means that you could earn hundreds or even thousands of dollars per day!! Contact us to become a UL promoter by visiting www.salettproductions.com and click on opportunities.
We would like to thank you for reading our newsletter. We look forward to seeing you soon!!
Sincerely,
Ulysses Grant Salett & M.M.W.M.C.-Square Knot Consulting Forward email
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July 2008
LinkShare Symposium 2008 Event Wrap Up
Easy Links
Inside the Publisher Dashboard
Publisher Promotions
New Advertisers
• Chico's
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• Goodwill
• iLetYou
• Kosher
• Lab Series
• MediaZone
• NutsOnline
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• Sony
• Trackvia
• Wendy Culpepper
• White House Black Market
• Zipidee
Events
Affiliate Summit East
August 10-12, 2008
Boston, MA
Shop.org Annual Summit
September 15-17, 2008
Las Vegas, NV
Platinum
Publisher Program
Rewards and recognition for the most profitable Publishers in the LinkShare Network. Read
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.EDU
An archive of Publisher Newsletters can be found in the .EDU section for Publishers at www.linkshare.com. There you can find other resources available such as interactive Web Seminar training for Publishers.
LinkShare July News
Last month's Symposium was a great success! Thanks to all of you who came out to meet us face-to-face in New York City. For those of you who couldn't make it, we hope to see you next year! Be sure to check out the Golden Links video presentation online.
In this edition of the Publisher Newsletter you can read a full event wrap up of LinkShare Symposium 2008, including a picture of the LinkShare Smart My Ride Sweepstakes winner! Read on to learn about the new link type Easy Links, a great set-it-and-forget-it option that will have your site earning commission in no time. For a fresh update to your ad space, why not look into our Inside the Publisher Dashboard section? Check out the promotions section, where we have highlighted two promising new programs: Trackvia and Wendy Culpepper.
LinkShare Symposium 2008 Event Wrap Up
“The best Symposium ever!” That was the phrase often overheard at LinkShare Symposium 2008 which brought together over 650 managers and executives from the world’s leading and emerging e-commerce companies. A combination of networking and learning, LinkShare Symposium enables advertisers and publishers to strengthen relationships while obtaining key industry insights that can help drive results.
Tuesday morning’s events began with opening remarks from Hiroshi Mikitani, CEO and Founder of The Rakuten Group, who travelled from Tokyo, Japan to attend the event. Mikitani-san introduced LinkShare’s new Co-Presidents – Yaz Iida and Jonathan Levine – and shared with attendees how LinkShare is a critical part of its worldwide strategy for the future. Next Arun Bordoloi, Senior Vice President of Services at LinkShare, spoke about how LinkShare is improving the Advertiser and Publisher experiences with redesigned user interfaces, new services and new technologies that improve the customer shopping experience including LinkShare Flex Links and Easy Links.
Keynote speaker James Surowiecki, author of The Wisdom of Crowds, roused the group’s enthusiasm with his remarks on the importance of collective intelligence explaining how diverse team of people will make better decisions than individuals or more homogenous teams. Then came the TrendWatch session, led by Patti Freeman Evans of Jupiter Research, which focused on the findings of a new study on shopping trends in the current tough economic environment. Later in the afternoon E. Kinney Zalesne, co-author of the bestselling Microtrends, illustrated the value of identifying and marketing to smaller groups of consumers with unique interests.
One of the highlights of the LinkShare Symposium is always the DealMarker session. DealMaker offers a rare opportunity for publishers and advertisers to meet face-to-face, helping to build better business relationships and discover new ways to drive revenue. At the end of DealMaker we announced the winner of the first ever LinkShare “Smart My Ride” sweepstakes! The lucky winner was Susan McNelis from DBG Loyalty. Congratulations Susan!
LinkShare Symposium 2008 ended with a night of drinks and dancing at the chic Hiro Ballroom in the Maritime Hotel.
2008 Award Winners
Congratulations to the following companies and individuals as this year's award finalists and winners!
Easy Links Have you heard about Easy Links?
LinkShare is currently testing a Pilot version of a new creative type called Easy Links.
Easy Links are contextual product ads that utilize an advertiser's Merchandiser file. All you as a publisher need to do is copy the code onto your website. Once you have done that, we will "crawl" your page and identify keywords associated with that page. LinkShare then queries the advertiser's Merchandiser file on the back end using these keywords. We then use LinkShare's unique knowledge about Merchandiser conversion rates to display products both relevant to your website's content, and with a relatively high chance of conversion based on past performance.
Easy Links are a simple set-it-and-forget-it way to promote products. If you have a nice content site, this link type could be a great solution for offering your visitors exactly what products they are looking for without having to do all of the work to set up individual product links.
During Pilot testing we are only offering one size - a 160x600 skyscraper. You will find an example of the Pilot design below. Also, you will only be able to find Easy Links in the Traditional Publisher Interface during this testing stage.
The full release is coming later this summer, with these enhancements:
Product and Price in the Ad Unit
8 IAB sizes
HTML color customization for the Publishers
Link, border, product text
Match the look / feel of your site
To read more about Easy Links please visit our website: www.linkshare.com/publishers/managing_your_account/contextual_advertising/
Inside the Publisher Dashboard
The LinkShare Deal Dispatchers
Have you ever checked out the LinkShare Deal Dispatchers? On the left hand side of the Publisher Dashboard homepage you will see two buttons—one that says Consumer Promotions and one that says Publisher Promotions. When you click on either of these buttons, a new window will open up with some exciting offers from our advertisers to help you earn even more commission with LinkShare.
The Consumer Promotions Deal Dispatcher is a listing of deals from advertisers that will benefit your website's visitors, for example free shipping, or $10 off of a purchase. These offers can be very helpful for turning clicks into sales and increasing your conversion rate.
The Publisher Promotions Deal Dispatcher is a listing of deals from advertisers that will benefit you directly through your commissions. These awards can be anything, from sign up bonus offers for new publishers, to increased commission rates or return days for loyal supporters.
Explore the Deal Dispatchers today for some great promotions that will help you earn the big bucks!
Publisher Promotions
Suggested Advertisers
Trackvia Partner with Trackvia, the best online database for small businesses, and earn $5 for each referred free trial sign-up and an additional $70 for each trial that becomes a paying account.
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Wendy Culpepper With a growing brand identity and celebrity fans that include Rachael Ray, Jessica Alba, & Catherine Zeta Jones, Wendy Culpepper Jewelry is an industry leader as one of the first high-end designers to make themselves available to the affiliate marketplace
http://www.wendyculpepper.com/
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Peace Nate,
Please check this story out. It is a serious issue in the USOC and is about to shake up the upcoming Olympics in Beijing. Please let me know if you can get her and her family on your show asap.
Press Conference & Protest Kicks Off "We Support Nia" Campaign in Houston
Nia Abdallah Delivers first statement since being robbed of Olympic dream
Houston, Texas--"When I won the silver medal in 2004 I was depressed because I felt I'd failed my country when I didn't win the gold. Afterwards, I totally dedicated myself to winning the gold in 2008. Now this", said Nia Abdallah. This was her first statement since being robbed of her Olympic dream. A press conference and rally was held on her behalf at Solomon's Temple of Martial Arts Fitness Center located in the Third Ward Area.
Nia Abdallah is recorded in history as the first woman to ever medal in Tae Kwondo since it became an official Olympic sport. She is the first African-American to medal in the sport and she holds the record for the most points ever scored in Olympic Tae Kwon Do competition.
"When I was 4 years old I told my grandfather, who was a fan of Jesse Owens, that one day I was going to win the Olympics. Since a little girl I have been headed in this direction. I'm still in shock. I am my own worst critic, but I honestly do not see what I could have done better", she continued in her message to the local press."This is not sour grapes with me. I wish her the best. I just don't want the next kid to go through what I'm going through. This is supposed to be a country where you are free to fulfill your dreams."
"The more I view the fight in its entirety the more nauseated I become", said Brother Deric Muhammad of the MMM Ministry of Justice. "The way Nia was treated was a slap in the face to Jesse Owens, Wilma Rudolph, Carl Lewis and to all who opened the way for the elimination of discrimination in the Olympic games."
Joined by several dozen in attendance, Nia's parents, Thomas and Rhonda Duhart are outraged as well. "It is extremely painful to watch her go through this. She worked so hard to prepare herself to represent this country and she was robbed of her opportunity. Something must be done", said Mrs. Duhart.
Mr. Duhart added that, "have always reviewed her fights and taught her to be the best. I can honestly say that she was at her best, but I believe that she was in their way."
There is a worldwide movement afoot to get justice for the 2004 Olympic Tae Kwon Do Silver Medalist. Abdallah was robbed by the 2008 United States Olympic Committee in her April Des Moines Olympic trial match against Diana Lopez of the newly famed Lopez family who is now appearing in many corporate sponsored commercials (AT&T, etc.) and who recently appeared on the Jay Leno Show. Videos of the taped battle have been circulating aggressively over the internet where 99% of the viewers vote Nia the winner "hands down". Countless blogs have been on fire with controversy over the injustice and letters are flying off to the USOC committee demanding answers. Nia trounced Diana so convincingly that the crowd erupted into boooos when Diana was declared the winner. While the Lopez family is highly respected in the world of Tae Kwon Do, experts declare that they are going to Beijing dishonorably and fear that the bureaucracy associated with last month's unbelievable outcome will represent a black eye for the future of the discipline which officially became an Olympic sport in the year 2000. Much has been made of the Lopez family being the first American trio of siblings to compete in the Olympics since 1904. But all one has to do is view the Nia vs Diana video and it is clear that their presence there will be more "marketing" than martial arts. (watch video at www.wesupportnia.com or wesupportnia.blogspot.com)
Attorney Warren Muhammad is representing the family and he commented that "While this case is about Nia Abdallah, it is about more than Nia. It is about every child, teenager and young adult who dedicates themselves to sport and aspires to Olympic competition. It is about insuring fairness, a level playing, where truly the best man or woman may win. It is about having rules and procedures in place for a fair and meaningful review, to ensure such fairness, and to protect the integrity of the sport and the individual contestants. These rules and procedures are lacking and wholly inadequate in the current state of affairs in Olympic Taekwondo competition. There is no meaningful review or process available to remedy an egregious, unjust decision, which dampens the spirit and kills the opportunity of contestants such as Nia Abdallah. The current process is a breeding ground for unfairness, subjectivity, collusion and fraud, which should have no place in a country that hold itself out as the standard bearer for Freedom, Justice and Equality. A Congressional Inquiry is needed to determine the merits of what has taken place in the debacle of the Nia Abdallah v Dianna Lopez match and the rules and regulations that govern the competition. "
Supporters of Ms. Abdallah are in protest of the U.S. Olympic Committee's decision to publicly rob the American people of the most qualified athletic representative in that weight class.
"I thought it was an outrage…I have heard from Taekwondo stylists all over the country who are outraged by the poor judging", said Floyd Burke of Black Belt Magazine in a released statement.
Protestors are also challenging all Tae Kwon Do athletes and enthusiasts in attendance in Beijing to stand and turn their backs moments before Diana Lopez competes in remembrance of the TKD principle of honor that was violated to advance her to the Olympics. We are demanding a full investigation by the House Judiciary Committee and there must be a change in the appellate process so that no athlete, regardless of race, creed or color will ever be robbed of their dignity and hard work the way Ms. Abdullah was.
"I have watched and watched the video and Nia could have scored as many as four points in sudden death alone….Nia won hands down", said Alan Schein (co-author of the book Tae Kwon Do Basics and and international press correspondent for Masters Magazine.
For more information on the case of Nia Abdallah visit www.wesupportnia.com or www.myspace.com/WeSupportNia.
--
Best Regards,
Jesse Muhammad
Jahaanah Productions
Professional Image Creators
"Mediocrity is NOT in Your D.N.A."
Office: 832.978.0939
Email: jesse.muhammad@gmail.com
Blog: jessemuhammad.blogspot.com
New Website Coming! www.BrotherJesse.com
Dear NATE,
My name is Alex Lofton, and I'm the Field Director for the Obama campaign in Georgia.
I want to thank you for everything you've done so far to build our movement. Supporters like you answered the call for change in all 50 states and helped secure the Democratic nomination for Barack Obama.
Georgia will play a crucial role in our general election strategy. We have a great opportunity to succeed here, so we're rapidly gearing up for the months ahead.
But only you can make this happen.
This Independence Day weekend, Obama supporters are coming together to help bring even more people into our political process by attending voter registration drives, walking in parades, volunteering at festivals, meeting up at family reunions, and reaching out to folks in our communities.
Sign up to attend a July 4th weekend Vote for Change event in your community:
http://ga.barackobama.com/GAjuly4th
The election will be here before we know it, and we cannot afford to wait to get started.
In fact, our work on the ground is already underway. Right now, Obama supporters are gathering weekly to help in voter registration events across the state.
And in the coming weeks, volunteers across Georgia will make important contact with friends, family, and neighbors to spread the word about this campaign.
Our campaign has proven the power of grassroots organizing. Now it's up to you to continue building this movement.
Attend a July 4th weekend Vote for Change event near you:
http://ga.barackobama.com/GAjuly4th
I look forward to working alongside you in the weeks to come.
Thanks,
Alex
Alex Lofton
Georgia Field Director
Obama for America
P.S. -- Can't make it to a Vote for Change event this Independence Day weekend? There will be plenty of opportunities to get involved as the campaign grows. Sign up now and learn how you can make a difference in Georgia:
http://ga.barackobama.com/GAvolunteer
NATEPERKINS.TV: iReport on Black in America
By NATEPERKINS.TV (blog-tv)(NATEPERKINS.TV (blog-tv))
Official Website of Barack Obama 2008 Presidential Campaign. NATEPERKINS.TV: with Barack Obama's "But this is our moment. This is our time" Clinches Presidential Nomination: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nateperkinstv/ ...
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SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA digest..."
Today's Messages:
1. NY Times Article (Frank Ploof )
2. Taking the Con outta Constitution.... (Michael Pearce )
3. H.R. 6304: FISA for Dummies (reverend Richie )
4. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Moderator Update (lois swartz )
5. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: all posts get through (Lane Gallagher )
6. For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA (Dominick )
7. Fw: citizenactivist sent you a video: "NozzleRage: Attack of the Pump" (Earl Allen Boek )
8. coming on early to moderate (John and Rosie )
9. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: For Discussion: Security vs. Freedoms ala Afghanistan (Earl Allen Boek )
10. Watch: Send Karl Rove to Jail! (Alexander Campbell )
11. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: RE: Re: Pelosi takes Impeachment off the table again. Let's do something about that! (nualolo )
12. removing yourself from the listserv (John and Rosie )
13. RE: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: Re: Iran ()
14. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Fwd: Constituent Response From Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (Alexander Campbell )
15. To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 - The Text (DABrownlee )
16. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From S... ()
17. all about FISA - the Text with comment... (DABrownlee )
18. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA (Lane Gallagher )
19. done with moderation (John and Rosie )
20. RE: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA (Laura Schneider )
21. RE: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Iran (Orion Hughes )
22. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From S... (Lane Gallagher )
23. all about FISA - the Text with comment... (DABrownlee )
24. To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 - The Text (DABrownlee )
25. Sedition Act of 1918 (nualolo )
26. all about FISA - the Text with comment... (DABrownlee )
27. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA (nualolo )
28. RE: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: Re: Re: I am now just another member (Ram A )
29. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: RE: Re: Iran (Gene Pearce )
30. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Fwd: Constituent Response From Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (Lane Gallagher )
31. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: RE: Re: RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath (Gene Pearce )
32. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA (Stanley Shapiro )
33. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: N-Obama (Stanley Shapiro )
34. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA (George M. Goodburn )
35. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Sedition Act of 1918 (George M. Goodburn )
36. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA (George M. Goodburn )
37. Re: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA (George M. Goodburn )
38. RE: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Immunity and Expost Facto (Diana McGinness )
39. Listserv Transition to Announcement Only & More (Larry Craig )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/ZwgGMzWJ
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:17:22 -0400
From: Frank Ploof
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] NY Times Article
Message-ID: <577016.7695.qm@web81005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
I wonder how much advice Obama received from this group on FISA?
I wonder how many groups there are?
I wonder how we can fit-in to his elaborate structure?
I wonder, I wonder,if i'mbeginning to wander?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/us/politics/18advisers.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&oref=slogin
------------------------------
Message: 2
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/YwgGMzWB
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:21:03 -0400
From: Michael Pearce
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Taking the Con outta Constitution....
Message-ID:
Found the below segments interesting. Thought I would share.
"...the noble enthusiasm of liberty is apt to be infected with a spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust."
"...that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants."
-Federalist Paper No. 1
"...the number of wars which have happened or will happen in the world will always be found to be in proportion to the number and weight of the causes, whether REAL or PRETENDED, which PROVOKE or INVITE them. If this remark be just, it becomes useful to inquire whether so many JUST causes of war are likely to be given by UNITED AMERICA as by DISUNITED America; for if it should turn out that United America will probably give the fewest, then it will follow that in this respect the Union tends most to preserve the people in a state of peace with other nations."
-Federalist Paper No. 3
"Carthage, though a commercial republic, was the aggressor in the very war that ended in her destruction. Hannibal had carried her arms into the heart of Italy and to the gates of Rome, before Scipio, in turn, gave him an overthrow in the territories of Carthage, and made a conquest of the commonwealth."
"The wars...[between Britain and France] ...have in a great measure grown out of commercial considerations, the desire of supplanting and the fear of being supplanted, either in particular branches of traffic or in the general advantages of trade and navigation."
-Federalist Paper No. 6
"There are two methods of curing the mischief's of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects.
There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.
It can never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an ailment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency."
The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the later may be extended."
-Federalist No. 10
"Government implies the power of making laws. It is essential to the idea of a law, that it be attended with a sanction; or, in other words, a penalty or punishment for disobedience. If there be no penalty annexed to disobedience, the resolution or commands which pretend to be laws will, in fact, amount to nothing more than advice or recommendation. This penalty, whatever it may be, can only be inflicted in two ways: by the agency of the courts and ministers of justice, or by military force; by the COERCION of the magistracy, or by the COERCION of arms.
The administration of private justice between the citizens of the same State, the supervision of agriculture and of other concerns of a similar nature, all those things, in short, which are proper to be provided for by local legislation, can never be desirable cares of a general jurisdiction. It is therefore improbably that there should exist a disposition in the federal councils to usurp the powers with which they are connected; because the attempt to exercise those powers would be as troublesome as it would be nugatory and the possession of them, for that reason, would contribute nothing to the dignity, to the importance, or to the splendor of national government.
+
"In republics, persons elevated from the mass of the community, by the suffrages of their fellow-citizens, to stations of great pre-eminence and power, may find compensation for betraying their trust, which, to any but minds animated and guided by superior virtue, may appear to exceed the proportion of interest they have in common stock, and to overbalance the obligations of duty. Hence it is that history furnishes us with so many mortifying examples of prevalence of foreign corruption in republican government."
-Federalist No. 22
"It has not a little contributed to the infirmities of the existing federal system, that it never had a ratification by the PEOPLE. Resting on no better foundation than the consent of the several legislatures, it has been exposed to frequent and intricate questions concerning the validity of its powers, and has, in some instances given birth to the enormous doctrine of a right of legislative repeal. Owing its ratification to the law of a State, it has been contended that the same authority repeal the law by which it was ratified. However gross a heresy it may be to maintain that a PARTY to a COMPACT has a right to revoke that COMPACT, the doctrine itself has had respectable advocates. The possibility of a question of this nature proves the necessity of laying the foundations of our nation government deeper than in the mere sanction of the delegated authority. The fabric of American empire ought to rest on the solid basis of THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE. The streams of nati
onal power ought to flow immediately from that pure, original fountain of all legitimate authority."
-Federalist Papers No. 22
------------------------------
Message: 3
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/8wgGMz3R
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:16:44 -0400
From: reverend Richie
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] H.R. 6304: FISA for Dummies
Message-ID: <4880A59D.9070401@gmail.com>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/cwgGMzQZ
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:32:07 -0400
From: lois swartz
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Moderator Update
Message-ID:
Fisa is very impt. And we should keep working on the issue ad its
implications. However as moderator you should be aware that Obama is
visiting Israel with Dennis Ross. Fisa is related because it is measure of
information and disinformation afloat in world. Dennis Ross is also. His
views of Camp David and How everything was offered to Arafat is
contradicted by observers and documented in impt. Article in New York
Review of Books.
Obamas speech to AIPAC was total capitulation to a one sided Israeli
narrative contradicted by expansion of settlements, impotence of their High
Court of Justice which follows military policy. At time when the US
struggles with our run away rogue Govt. and corrupted military we want to
watch a Obama throwing in his lot with an Israeli govt. that in S. America
would be called a miltary junta and not the only democracy in the Middle
East. Fisa is impt. Issue is to view related issues. Obama is our best
candidate to win election and we should play a role in his move to the right
and trying course correction. Dennis Kucinich is on record with great
speech in Congress on Nakba. Lois Swartz
On 7/17/08 12:19 PM, "Larry Craig"
> Hello everyone! There are 50 messages in queue from last night. Im sending
> them out in the order they were received. Well get caught up before I sign
> off.
>
> Thank you for your patience,
>
> Larry from Oregon
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 5
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/NwgGMz3d
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:56:47 -0400
From: Lane Gallagher
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: all posts get through
Message-ID: <304885.15834.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
There is a lot of reading to be found if you Google Ryan Lizza.
lane
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, with Congressional
Approval, the National Security Agency may have read this email
without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any
judicial or legislative oversight.
--- On Thu, 7/17/08, lois swartz
From: lois swartz
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: all posts get through
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 1:37 PM
MAKING IT: How Chicago Shaped Obama by Ryan Lizza, New Yorker July 21, is worth a careful read. Obama is a good politician. Is he our knight in shining armor and our radical hero? No. However he is a long distance runner. Reading the article takes some of the cartoon sting out for me, but I still dont like it. Article is worth discussion on these blogs. Does anyone know anything else the the reporter, Ryan Lizza? What else has he written and where has he has been published? Lois Swartz
On 7/16/08 6:41 PM, "John and Rosie"
Just wanted to assure everyone, all posts are going through. We did have that issue with blanks. But I got Roberts through last night.
You can also try sending it in plain text, but I have notified the google group about the problem with what looks blank.
I do the same thing Sarah does, I start with the oldest first and work up through the posts.
Rosie
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Message: 6
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/ZwgGMz3k
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:58:10 -0400
From: Dominick
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <002901c8e8e6$b0476450$82d7bf4c@SADIE>
This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
Thanks You-Dominick
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
We appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Obama for America,
---
Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting
the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the
required court orders.
That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which
expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent
Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those
who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far
from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of
warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -
making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard
the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes
basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate
three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took
place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of
Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
America Act.
It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face,
providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do
so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the
Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives
- and the liberty - of the American people.
----------------------
Paid for by Obama for America
------------------------------
Message: 7
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/FwgGMzZS
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:30:56 -0400
From: Earl Allen Boek
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Fw: citizenactivist sent you a video: "NozzleRage: Attack of the Pump"
Message-ID: <599548.62209.qm@web59001.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/127983.html
General Acquisitions, LLC
DBA American Energy
Conservation Group
Earl Allen Boek, GM/Founder
PO Box 1579
Anderson, CA. 96007
530-776-8529 Office
530-549-4315 Fax
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: YouTube Service
To: earlallenboek@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:19:51 AM
Subject: citizenactivist sent you a video: "NozzleRage: Attack of the Pump"
help center | e-mail options | report spam
citizenactivist has shared a video with you on YouTube!
Just what some of you, too
busy folks, deserve.
Al Boek
American Energy Conservation Group
530-776-8529
NozzleRage: Attack of the Pump
Getting hosed at the gas pump. Hilarious clip produced by the Zucker brothers.
2008 YouTube, LLC
------------------------------
Message: 8
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/hwgGM8pM
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:45:32 -0400
From: John and Rosie
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] coming on early to moderate
Message-ID: <96CA5EE00CD34B659F22744714ED7B2A@mom>
Hi all,
Hey, I know we're all frustrated and stressed out -- and with good reason; the rule of law and the Constitution took a beating.
We're also all on the same side here, at least in terms of FISA. It's easy to forget that as things get heated.
Here's some suggestions that have helped a lot in other situations, slightly tweaked for our current group
1. Respect other users. If they make requests, attempt to honor them -- or at least politely explain why you are not doing so.
2. Respect groups of people different than you. Everybody has good reasons for supporting whatever candidates they are or aren't supporting; don't attack them for it.
3. Remember that language is ambiguous and that there are ample opportunities for misunderstanding -- by yourself and others.
4. Accordingly, don't lightly take offense, and don't assume bad faith or ill motives on the part of others.
5. If somebody else violates the ground rules, that does not give you the right to do so as well
One other point: bear in mind that this is an Obama campaign site. It's fine to reference other candidates, but this is not the place to mount advocacy campaigns for them, or attack Obama. Criticism -- even quite vigorous criticism -- is healthy; attacks feed the Republican narrative of disunity among Obama supporters.
Thanks.
Rosie Delaney
List Moderator--
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Message: 9
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/VwgGM8nj
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:16:05 -0400
From: Earl Allen Boek
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: RE: For Discussion: Security vs. Freedoms ala Afghanistan
Message-ID: <265645.28765.qm@web59013.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Ted...I think your putting words into Frank's mouth. He quoted McSame...Didn't say he supported him. You don't see him posting on McCains site do you? Your a real
attack dog. We need to find you some real McCain bones to chew on...smile
General Acquisitions, LLC
DBA American Energy
Conservation Group
Earl Allen Boek, GM/Founder
PO Box 1579
Anderson, CA. 96007
530-776-8529 Office
530-549-4315 Fax
----- Original Message ----
From: Ted Blodgett
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:00:41 AM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: For Discussion: Security vs. Freedoms ala Afghanistan
Frank Ploof,
How ever much you may believe that McCain will protect you and however much you want to convince others of that there are a few things you should learn about this country. One very important thing is that the government has no obligation to give you security. Their only obligation is to assure the freedom of the citizens. If you doubt me I challange you to show me anywhere in the documents that form the foundation of this country where it shows otherwise. According to the Founding Documents the governments only reason for being is to insure liberty NOT security. You may be confusing America with past historical societies that did base their existance on security perhaps?
As to "'loose' nuclear materials" it may interest you to learn that the prevention of such was what the outed CIA agent Valerie Plame worked on. And that it has only been since that outing (which is a VERY serious offense in itself) that there has been an issue of "'loose' nuclear materials". Prio to her outing and the outing of the entire covert operation she was an intregal part of there was little if any problem in this area. You should think about that and concern yourself with that if you truely are concerned about you security. Maybe your security hero McCain could make a statement of what he intends to do about the guilty parties in this case of the outing of covert agent Plame? We already know what bush said he'd do, and hhe's done everything in his power since to avoid that. Even you McCain supporters must find it somehwhat odd to have the very people who blow the covert operations to prevent "'loose' nuclear materials" are now saying
they need warrantless surviellence in order to prevent "'loose' nuclear materials". Don't you?
Ted Blodgett
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives.
----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Schneider
To: President@ob3.colo ; Obama@ob3.colo ; Please Get FISA Right
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:46 PM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: For Discussion: Security vs. Freedoms ala Afghanistan
What are we protecting, if not our constitution and the rights and protections it provides. National security was not an issue here. We were protected by the original FISA law of 1978 and all its amendments (Patriot Act, Protect America Act, etc.). The only part of FISA that expired on February 2008 was the FISA Amendment of 2007. And all the warrants that had been obtained during that period were good for one year from the date of origination, which may extend as far as January 31, 2009. This is a false crisis. He is trying to hide behind this false crisis to "excuse" his vote. It won't work for anyone with a brain.
Laura Schneider
laura.schneider@mchsi.com
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives.
________________________________
From: Frank Ploof [mailto:ploof1@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:41 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For Discussion: Security vs. Freedoms ala Afghanistan
As has been said may times: Security and Freedom can be in conflict with each other, especially in times or war/crisis, Security trumps freedom.
I just read Baracks speech he gave today on Foreign Policy at: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gGxkFr
He actually may believed he temporarily needs FISA to support his initiative:
"Senator McCain said - just months ago - that "Afghanistan is not in trouble because of our diversion to Iraq." I could not disagree more. Our troops and our NATO allies are performing heroically in Afghanistan, but I have argued for years that we lack the resources to finish the job because of our commitment to Iraq. That's what the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said earlier this month. And that's why, as President, I will make the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban the top priority that it should be. This is a war that we have to win.
Not actually a war, but his speech also addresses 'loose' nuclear materials which I'm sure they need to 'listen' for activity...
Just some thoughts,
frank
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Message: 10
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/fwgGM8Sn
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:16:33 -0400
From: Alexander Campbell
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Watch: Send Karl Rove to Jail!
Message-ID: <4880cfea83aee_a4b..fdbf7837e53634@www2.bravenewtheaters.com.tmail>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/2wgGM8Sh
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:20:34 -0400
From: nualolo
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: RE: Re: Pelosi takes Impeachment off the table again. Let's do something about that!
Message-ID:
Prosecute W after he leaves? NOT!
If it is going to happen, now would be the time - just like they did to
Clinton.
Bernard
On 7/18/08 12:52 PM, "Junk3555@cs.com"
> Do you really think there's enough time for an impeachment trial before the
> elections. At this point I think it should be prosecuted as a criminal act
> after W gets out of power. What do you think of going that way?
------------------------------
Message: 12
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/9wgGM8vP
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:33:22 -0400
From: John and Rosie
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] removing yourself from the listserv
Message-ID:
For those still getting posts and have removed themselves know that some posts may still come through. If it continues please contact the moderator (send a post to the listserv) we will then go in and remove you.
If you haven't tried because your not sure how, simply go to the Mybo site sign in- on the left is your dashboard, click on groups- a new page will come up- on the left see the fisa group name click on it- the next page will come up and to the left it will say leave group- Click on that and you should get a confirmation notice saying you were removed.
Rosie--
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Message: 13
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/NwgGM8t4
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:51:25 -0400
From:
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: RE: Re: Iran
Message-ID: <5D31540C.3FD16E3D.007A7F72@cs.com>
In the best case scenario, democracy is not imposed on the people but it arises naturally from the interaction between them.
It doesn't mean it cannot be imposed: Democracy WAS imposed on both Japan and West Germany after World War II.
In terms of initiating a revolution, being a foreign power, although I don't think they initiated it, they supported and without their support that revolution wouldn't have succeeded. They being the French and the revolution being the American Revolution. BTW, the French were not even a democracy then but a Absolutist Kingdom, the one before the French Revolution. So yes in some cases Foreign Intervention is what's needed to kick start a Democracy as the American Revolution shows.
The Eastern European democracies arguably were helped by some foreign intervention in the form of a Cold War.
That didn't mean that Washington consented to any home invaded or some kind of deprivation of liberty because of the French intervention.
I do agree that for people that could be facing War Crimes to imply they didn't intend to break the rules of war is unacceptable.
So in conclusion, I don't think a good idea for our government to be in the business of regulating other countries. But given the tendency (just a tendency) of democracies to be peaceful, if we see a democratic development in a country, we should support it, maybe express our strong disagreement with some thing another country does but not to the point of disrupting democracy as was done with Mossadegh.
Gene Pearce
>I always thought of Democracy as being the "Choice of the People" and to impose Democracy, or initiate a revolution, being a foreign power, was contrary to the Principles.
>
>By approving of forced democracy, you've just consented to having your home invaded, and your children given the authority of legislating your actions, and appropriations for their own expenses you must provide for.
>
>And for people that could be facing War Crimes to imply they didn't intend to break the rules of war is unacceptable.
>
>What if the Soviet Union first had nuclear weapons, and shared as much with their allies.
>
>Would we accept restriction on our ability to support sciences and explore its uses for cheaper energy? Americans forget that Nuclear weapons is what caused the Cold War. It not only threatened, but it protected. No reasonable person would risk attacking a country that has nuclear weapons, because of the consequences it has. But those at the top must realize that you catch more flies with honey, than you do with Yellow Cake.
>
>Without trust, you can never have peace. And as long as we have WMD, there can never be a true trust.
>
>Our Federal Gov't was never granted the power to Regulate other Countries, nor to make war. Only to declare war. A people need to free themselves from Tyrannical rule. Having made the choice, retrospect shows that lives that were lost were by choice of a better existance. Everytime we have imposed force to 'free' a people from their bondage, It has lead to the death of many, including those we supposedly wished to free.
>
>Problem is, which is our intention? Freedom of Tyranny? Or freedom from life?
>
>We expect children to respect their parents. This being that they do not have the knowledge or strength themselves. The same can be said about our involvements Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.
>
>Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Junk3555@cs.com
>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:20:39
>To:
>Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: Iran
>
>I agree that not supporting Mossadegh was an error but you seem to be blaming America for what's going on in Iran and saying the Ayatollahs just happpened to be the only ones available. As a matter of fact, the Shah was deposed by a broad coalition which included secularists, socialists, and others.
>
>Khomeini was the most ruthless of them all and basically killed anyone that standed in his way to absolute power of the mullahs. So the mullahs are responsible for what's going on in Iran not America for following a misguided policy regarding democratic regimes in Iran.
>
>As a counter-example, we did support the Apartheid government in South-Africa probably for the same reasons we supported the Shah. Anti-communist, supporter of capitalism, no nationalization of the country's resources. Following your arguments, South Africa today should have a savage little group of sadists is power with some Absolute Leader having the ultimate word and killing homosexuals and women that show some hair. Rather than that, the South-Africans have created a model of rule of law, separation of powers and a viable democratic government.
>
>So America may have "some" blame on what's going on Iran but not even 10 percent. The blame rests squarely on the mullahs.
>
>Matty Sarro
>
>>Actually, there was democracy in Iran in the 1950's. Mohommad Mossadegh was
>>the Prime Minister of the country - a secularist who was democratically
>>elected. He was also an ally of the US. Until, of course, he nationalized
>>oil. His reasoning was that western oil companies were able to take
>>advantage of Iran in the post WWI era because they were wards to the US, UK,
>>and France. Because it cost US oil investors a large amount of money the
>>kind, peaceful man who was touted as a great US ally suddenly became an
>>enemy.
>>
>>Suddenly the CIA, FBI, and oil investors wanted him out. So, the CIA and MI6
>>launched "Operation Ajax" (feel free to look it up). They hired gang members
>>to storm Tehran and protest against Mossadegh and basically spread
>>misinformation about him. Following them, the CIA aided General Zahedi, and
>>his branch of militant loyalists to stage a coup. This led to popular riots,
>>and ultimately Mossadegh's being overthrown. He was placed under house
>>arrest where he died. The US reinstated the Shah Pahlevi as ruler of the
>>country who basically served as a puppet for the US and UK. His first act?
>>De-nationalizing Iranian oil. Further, the CIA trained a branch of Iranian
>>secret police known as SAVAK. The Savak basically kidnapped any relatives of
>>Mossadegh, secularist supporters, or proponents of democracy and had them
>>tortured, and killed. This lack of secularists primed Iran for the Islamic
>>Republic takeover when the Ayatollah Khomenii took over. All of the
>>secularists who would have stood against them were dead, or in hiding for
>>fear of their lives.
>>
>>We created Iran as it is today. They were a democracy, we destroyed it to
>>put in a pro-west dictatorship solely because of oil. Learn some history.
>>Any idea that we're there to create a democracy is, for all intense
>>purposes, a load of bull feces.
>>
>>Iran works just fine as a nation right now. A large amount of what actually
>>goes on there is overblown by the media. Yes, there are police of vice and
>>virtue - elected almost universally from college men. Basically, if you're
>>having a party, they'll ask everyone to go home. Occasionally if you're
>>doing something really bad or you're a constant offender, you'll be taken in
>>for questioning.
>>
>>Some of that has changed recently, as the country is starting to polarize
>>under US pressures and, for lack of a better word, bullying.
>>
>>I had two Iranian college professors for my Middle Eastern Cultures and
>>Middle Eastern Politics classes - some of the most eye-opening classes I've
>>ever taken.
>>
>>My point is, Iran was a democracy. The US destroyed it. There's a book you
>>should read - "All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle
>>Eastern Terror."
>>
>>-Matthew, PA
>>
>>On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM,
>>
>>> There's no democracy in Iran. If McCain or anyone wants to encourage
>>> democracy in Iran I think it's a good idea. Basically the power is in the
>>> hands of the Supreme Leader (I thinks that's the official name). Then, they
>>> run a charade of electing people that have some minimal power. Not democracy
>>> in my book.
>>>
>>> But this has nothing to do with FISA or the 4th ammendment. Except there
>>> s no 4th ammendment in Iran.
>>>
>>> If McCain is trying to force democracy in IRan, that would not work. It has
>>> to come from the bottom up. Problem is that the bottom is so pwerless in
>>> Iran that is not an easy solution. China the same, there's no real
>>> democracy. I guess it shows us where we're going.
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> This email was sent to 2739 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA
>>> Right
>>> This email was sent from Junk3555@cs.com
>>> Listserv email address:
>>> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
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>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>This email was sent to 2629 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
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Message: 14
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/vwgGM8tl
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:52:47 -0400
From: Alexander Campbell
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison
Message-ID: <8f32fc290807181052x6b0932efp839c51da85d8118a@mail.gmail.com>
Karl Rove has endured some strong words against him, yet he has not been
indicted for all of his atrocities while in the Bush Administration. It's
time to stop the madness and get Rove behind bars for what all he's done.
We have a very unique opportunity to tell the House Judiciary Comittee to
hold Karl Rove in contempt and send him to jail. I Invite you to watch this
video and sign the petition:
http://sendkarlrovetojail.com/
------------------------------
Message: 15
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/dwgGM8tV
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:04:20 -0400
From: DABrownlee
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 - The Text
Message-ID: <4880DB18.2020306@mindspring.com>
*H.R.6304*
*Title:* To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to
establish a procedure for authorizing certain acquisitions of foreign
intelligence, and for other purposes.
*Sponsor: *Rep Reyes, Silvestre
[TX-16] (introduced 6/19/2008) Cosponsors
*Related Bills:* H.RES.1285
*Latest Major Action: * Became Public Law No: 110-261 [GPO: Text
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.6304:
------------------------------
Message: 16
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/lwgGM8cB
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:18:43 -0400
From:
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From S...
Message-ID:
Here is a letter that I'm getting ready to fax to Rep Sanchez.
7/18/07
Dear Representative Sanchez,
I’m very, very concerned about the fact that you and Mr. Conyers can seem to
find the time to write op-eds for the Huffington Post denouncing Karl Rove
yet you can not seem to find the time to actually do anything about him.
DON’T YOU THINK IT IS TIME THAT YOU DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE?
It is because of this PLAIN and OBVIOUS lack of action that I left the
Democratic party after 22 years. Between you, Mr. Conyers, and Ms. Pelosi, there
is no chance that our once great nation will ever see anyone in the Bush
administration held accountable for their crimes. It amazes me that our elected
officials can just sit back and watch Mr. Rove appear on FOX television while
he continues to act as if he is above the law. Well, actually, he IS above
the law because you and the other elected officials continue to do NOTHING to
change it. It is pretty sickening!
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, MS. SANCHEZ! America is tired of hearing
you and others whine about Karl Rove. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Karl Rove is
either above the law or not.
I am ashamed of you and the others in Washington who do nothing to uphold
your oath to protect the United States Constitution and our nation’s rule of
law. I hope karma comes back to bite you in the ass.
**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
------------------------------
Message: 17
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/VwgGM8WJ
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:21:15 -0400
From: DABrownlee
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] all about FISA - the Text with comment...
Message-ID: <4880DF19.5010500@mindspring.com>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
------------------------------
Message: 18
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/LwgGM8Wc
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:29:23 -0400
From: Lane Gallagher
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <545361.85471.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
It is disrespectful as well as insultingfor Obama to expecthis supportersto accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected and Ill do...er, whatever.
He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials.
All we are asking and demanding is that he dowhat he has already sworn to do:
Upon taking office, Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the Constitution." The oath is required by the Constitution; the wording is prescribed by law.
Enough of this Lawlessness. Instead of asking us to help get another law-breaker into office, why not ask him to stop breaking the law. We want the change he promised and we want it NOW.
lane
Warning, due to a rogue president and alazy, greedy and cowardly congress, this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no recourse because your rights have been stripped from you.
--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
From: Dominick
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
Thanks You-Dominick
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
We appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Obama for America,
---
Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting
the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the
required court orders.
That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which
expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent
Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those
who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far
from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of
warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -
making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard
the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes
basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate
three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took
place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of
Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
America Act.
It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face,
providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do
so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the
Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives
- and the liberty - of the American people.
----------------------
Paid for by Obama for America
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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This email was sent from Dominick dominick@sonic.net
Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
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Message: 19
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/ywgGM8rX
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:37:36 -0400
From: John and Rosie
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] done with moderation
Message-ID: <83874CAE1AAF44169895ECB53F9DA0EB@mom>
My shift is done, Larry will be on later.
Rosie
Moderator--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 3665 spam emails to date.
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Message: 20
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/CwgGM8rc
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:41:04 -0400
From: Laura Schneider
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <00af01c8e905$cf853120$0300a8c0@CUSA>
Lane, you have it in a nutshell. The attempt to divert focus from this issue to electing any Dem candidate at any cost is concerning. It's not just about winning an election, it's about how we will govern the country once elected. We need to get Obama's attention and a real response that indicates he understands the gravity of what he did and is committed to fixing the problem immediately, not just waiting until after the election, when our efforts will be dissipated and our attention diverted. All the mundane issues that face us in the next presidential term are important. But everything our government does hinges on a vibrant, viable Constitution.
Laura Schneider
laura.schneider@mchsi.com
WARNING: Due to a rogue, imperial president and by the use of Presidential Executive Orders, presidential signing statements and a absurdly broad use of executive privilege, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency, the FBI or any intelligence agency under the jurisdiction of the Department of Intelligence or Homeland Security may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. Thanks to an ineffective and cowardly Congress, they may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, the Vice President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives._____
From: Lane Gallagher [mailto:islalane@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:30 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
It is disrespectful as well as insulting for Obama to expect his supporters to accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected and I�ll do...er, whatever.
He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials.
All we are asking and demanding is that he do what he has already sworn to do:
Upon taking office, Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the Constitution
Enough of this Lawlessness. Instead of asking us to help get another law-breaker into office, why not ask him to stop breaking the law. We want the change he promised and we want it NOW.
lane
Warning, due to a rogue president and a lazy, greedy and cowardly congress, this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no recourse because your rights have been stripped from you.
--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
From: Dominick
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
Thanks You-Dominick
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
We appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Obama for America,
---
Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting
the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the
required court orders.
That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which
expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent
Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those
who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far
from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of
warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -
making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard
the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes
basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate
three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took
place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of
Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
America Act.
It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face,
providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do
so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the
Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives
- and the liberty - of the American people.
----------------------
Paid for by Obama for America
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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This email was sent from Dominick dominick@sonic.net
Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
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Message: 21
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/7wgGM8rr
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:41:28 -0400
From: Orion Hughes
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: RE: Iran
Message-ID:
When did America destroy a legitimate Democracy in Fiji?
What are you talking about? Fiji? My goodness. I never heard of America
making tactical errors because of hawks that would haunt America for decades, in FIJI!!!!
> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:48:12 -0400> To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com> From: Junk3555@cs.com> Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Iran> > So if understand you correctly, America determines the fate of every nation in the world. You seem to say, if we make a mistake in, say, the Fiji Islands antyhing can go wrong because of America. The "natives" may have some say in what develops in the Fiji Islands but if we try to influence the politics of the Fiji Islands and make a mistake, that's it... the Fiji Islanders are doomed. Dictatorship, Barbarism, Lack of respect for Human Rights is their future. The future every single nation of the world is determined by America's actions.> > I tend to think that even when America's influence in the World is enormous, maybe too much so. The people in the Fiji Islands still have a say in how their nation turn out. Think about what could have developed in Iran if
instead of a Khomeini, a Mandela had risen in its midst.> > I would argue that we committed the same or worse mistakes in South Africa as in Iran but somehow the results were different. I agree the American intervention was misguided. Basically we wanted to help some companies and actually not even American companies (British) and forced Mossadegh out so support their corporate interests. There's some blame, I agree. You seem to say the blame is 100% of America. I would say is less than 10%. But we can agree to disagree.> > > > > Orion Hughes �
ave Mossadegh back in power today????> >> >Not responsible for what happened???? �Are you kidding? �Iran was a Democracy - they arent anymore> >because the United States got rid of the Democracy. �OF COURSE America is responsible,> >who else is responsible - the Chinese????> >> >The HAWKS told us, trust us, you have to do what we are saying, because the MOST HAWKISH> >option is ALWAYS the ONLY viable one. �Get out of our way. �Quit your hand-wringing - bleeding hearts.> >Quit complaining about your principles - beleivers in Democracy. �Quit complaining about what a strategic disaster this is going to be in 50 years - realists. �ONLY Hawks know what they are doing.> >> >Now, they had their chance, it was a disaster, so we let them have another chance, another disaster,> >another chance, another disaster, another chance - and here they are still arguing, "it wasnt our fault", "it wasnt our fault", "we arent responsible". �Just imagine folks, if Americans didnt
buy into all this> >ultra-hawk war-mongering stuff about going into other peoples countries and getting rid of moderate> >secular democracies. �Then youre all surprised when the radicals who MOST oppose the puppet dictatorship of the Shah, get in and are still there decades later. �FACE FACTS.> >> >> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------> >This email was sent to 2620 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right> >This email was sent from Orion Hughes �orionhughes@hotmail.com> >Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com> >Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com> >Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-remove> >---------------------------------------------
2595 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right> This email was sent from Junk3555@cs.com> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-remove> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 22
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/nwgGM8c2
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:45:48 -0400
From: Lane Gallagher
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From S...
Message-ID: <836897.82013.qm@web30402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Bravo, Bravo!
lane
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, with Congressional
Approval, the National Security Agency may have read this email
without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any
judicial or legislative oversight.
--- On Fri, 7/18/08, AirtimeJunkie@aol.com
From: AirtimeJunkie@aol.com
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From S...
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:20 PM
Here is a letter that I'm getting ready to fax to Rep Sanchez.
7/18/07
Dear Representative Sanchez,
Im very, very concerned about the fact that you and Mr. Conyers can seem to find the time to write op-eds for the Huffington Post denouncing Karl Rove yet you can not seem to find the time to actually do anything about him.
DONT YOU THINK IT IS TIME THAT YOU DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE?
It is because of this PLAIN and OBVIOUS lack of action that I left the Democratic party after 22 years. Between you, Mr. Conyers, and Ms. Pelosi, there is no chance that our once great nation will ever see anyone in the Bush administration held accountable for their crimes. It amazes me thatour elected officialscan just sit back and watch Mr. Rove appear on FOX television while he continues to act as if he is above the law. Well, actually, he IS above the law because you and the other elected officials continue to do NOTHING to change it. It is pretty sickening!
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, MS. SANCHEZ! America is tired of hearing you and others whine about Karl Rove. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Karl Rove is either above the law or not.
I am ashamed of you and the others in Washington who do nothing to uphold your oath to protect the United States Constitution and our nations rule of law. I hope karma comes back to bite you in the ass.
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
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Message: 23
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/QwgGM8cq
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:47:34 -0400
From: DABrownlee
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] all about FISA - the Text with comment...
Message-ID: <4880E52C.3090702@mindspring.com>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 - The Text
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.6304:
------------------------------
Message: 24
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/GwgGM8cZ
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:47:34 -0400
From: DABrownlee
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 - The Text
Message-ID: <4880DE40.9010109@mindspring.com>
*H.R.6304*
*Title:* To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to
establish a procedure for authorizing certain acquisitions of foreign
intelligence, and for other purposes.
*Sponsor: *Rep Reyes, Silvestre
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.6304:
------------------------------
Message: 25
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/gwgGM8cW
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:47:41 -0400
From: nualolo
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Sedition Act of 1918
Message-ID:
Just another thought,
In my eyes this is wreaking of the same kind of corruption as the Sedition
Act. Remember that?
If you don't read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918
Bernard
------------------------------
Message: 26
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/DwgGM8cc
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:47:56 -0400
From: DABrownlee
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] all about FISA - the Text with comment...
Message-ID: <4880E55B.6080103@mindspring.com>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
To amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 - The Text
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.6304:
------------------------------
Message: 27
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/RwgGM8cs
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:49:30 -0400
From: nualolo
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID:
Lane,
I agree. I am pretty tired of hearing from the group we have to get over
it and move on - or that they accept this Obama form letter as a
response.
I am right there with ya buddy. I dont accept that way of thinking at all.
All we are asking is for him to live up to his sworn oath not only as a
senator but also as a CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER!
Does Obama really think it is ok to anger voters like those of us here? I
guess he does. We will see what happens come November.
Best,
Bernard
On 7/18/08 2:30 PM, "Lane Gallagher"
> It is disrespectful as well as insulting for Obama to expect his supporters
> to accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected and Ill do...er,
> whatever. He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our
> problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the Constitution
> and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials. All we are asking and
> demanding is that he do what he has already sworn to do: Upon taking office,
> Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the
> Constitution
> ." The oath is required by the Constitution; the wording is prescribed by
> law. Enough of this Lawlessness. Instead of asking us to help get another
> law-breaker into office, why not ask him to stop breaking the law. We want the
> change he promised and we want it NOW. lane
>
> Warning, due to a rogue president and a lazy, greedy and cowardly congress,
> this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no recourse because your
> rights have been stripped from you.
> --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
>> From: Dominick
>> Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS
>> repsonse to FISA
>> To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
>>
>> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
>>
>> This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole
>> received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to
>> the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
>> Thanks You-Dominick
>> Dear Friend,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this
>> important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
>> We appreciate hearing from you.
>> Sincerely,
>> Obama for America,
>>
>> ---
>> Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
>> have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
>> they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
>> liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
>> Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
>> has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting
>> the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the
>> required court orders.
>>
>> That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which
>> expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
>> independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent
>> Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those
>> who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
>>
>> After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far
>> from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
>> Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
>> against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of
>> warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
>> criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -
>> making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard
>> the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes
>> basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
>>
>> It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate
>> three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
>> accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
>> unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
>> Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took
>> place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
>> forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of
>> Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
>> America Act.
>>
>> It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face,
>> providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
>> safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do
>> so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
>> program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the
>> Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives
>> - and the liberty - of the American people.
>>
>> ----------------------
>> Paid for by Obama for America
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
>> This email was sent from Dominick dominick@sonic.net
>> Listserv email address:
>> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Your reply will be sent to:
>> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
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>> http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/lists
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Message: 28
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/bwgGM8Bm
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:30:07 -0400
From: Ram A
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: I am now just another member
Message-ID:
Adam, it is true that some people are uncomfortable with the truth and would rather deflect it with attacks on you.
However, I see nothing wrong in (your) posting an email that provides us with a link to a public statement signed by Laura.
The statement had full context and includes a paragraph by Laura stating that Obama was an ultra-liberal elitist. The signed statement states she’d rather abstain or vote for McCain if Obama became the nominee. If Laura felt that the statement didn’t have sufficient context, she should have provided additional information in the paragraph or she shouldn’t have made the statement public.
As for those who attack you of “Gestapo-like tactics”, “Guantanamo”, ‘Personal assault” etc., imo these people have zero credibility outside the small coterie that seeks to attack Obama and Obama supporters and yet be members of groups.barackobama.com.
Regardless of whether they support Obama or not, most Republicans, democrats and independents would consider any comparison between your email and Nazis to be absurd. Anyone attacking you of Gestapo tactics probably doesn’t know or care about the holocaust or what the Gestapo did.
Anyway, overall, I think the group is wasting too much time on nonsensical attacks on Obama and Obama supporters (“Gestapo-like tactics”, “Personal assault”, Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaase being too offensive, “Guantanamo” etc.).
It doesn’t matter much whether these people vote for Obama in November or not. They are a very small fraction within the overall group of former-Clinton-supporters or democrats or FISA-opponents. We’ll be better off focusing our time on the rest of the people to build a broad coalition for a win in November and for civil liberties and other progressive agendas
From: Adam S. [mailto:sugerfunk@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:13 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: Re: Re: I am now just another member
Once again, I will state my perspective. It was not an attack. I have no ability to get a full account of who you are -- I only shared information that I found.
And my statement gave you an opportunity to follow up, which you did. There was no "damning" and I was not on troll patrol. I was simply responding to what I saw as sowing of dischord and malcontent over differences of opinion.
I will also admit a degree of emotional reaction to the whole PUMA movement -- it is profoundly disturbing to see yet another example of a crumbling coalition of progressives. And honestly, I feel that this is the very reason why progressivism gets defeated so often, because people get so empassioned by their individual concerns, they forget the bigger picture.
I am only trying to keep the focus on the goal of getting progressives elected while simultaneously holding their feet to the fire. Not voting for Obama will not resolve FISA, and we need to fix it.
At this point, I realize that Laura and I (and most everyone else on this list) are in more agreement than we are in dischord. Please, let's stop the in-fighting... if I had known my post was going to kick up so much dust, I definitely would have avoided it.
Respectfully,
Adam
----- Original Message ----
From: Laura Schneider
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:20:39 PM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: Re: I am now just another member
I stated clearly that I had signed it at the time when I thought Hillary was still viable (she had not conceded yet). Also, that Adam's attack was very biased -- it did not provide a full account of who I was, just the most "damning" evidence that suited his attack. This is absolutely true. That's the danger of these "troll patrols" and that mindset that we attack any one who does not agree with us.
Laura Schneider
laura.schneider@mchsi.com
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives.
From: John and Rosie [mailto:rjdelaney@wavecable.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:36 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: I am now just another member
Time to shake the dust off your feet and move on, its a dead horse issue, there was no bashing, flaming or attacking. By the way I was not moderating at the time, so I do have a right to state my opinion as a member of the group.
I didn't see Adam's info as a personal attack, what I saw was information readily available to the public, for Laura to then feel offended and feel she had been attacked said she didn't, 1) either really mean to sign it, it was a knee jerk reaction, or 2) she is embarrassed she signed it. I say if you sign a petition you are standing for what you believe in and say it loud and proud.
You could answer me with the same please and I would not be offended, perhaps my skin is thicker, or I understand that we try and express ourselves in a typed way that says we are exasperated, done with the subject or can see we are not being heard.
Abstaining and giving up, you try and make them different, its just another play with semantics- like "I am giving up ice cream" ---"I am abstaining from Ice Cream" call me crazy but means the same to me there's no ice cream in my future.
has nothing to do with liking you or not, I don't know you, I can't make a judgment.
You can't seem to let this issue go..........so I will.
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: suzandreasen
To: President@ob3.colo ; Obama@ob3.colo ; Please Get
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:41 AM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: I am now just another member
Rosie,
If you would have said, “PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASE, “ to me in front of me face to face, I would have still been offended. I don’t mind it when I hear it second hand, but when directed at me, when I am trying to attempt to engage in dialogue, I do find it sarcastic and personal, and as posted by moderators, they are not and we are not supposed to get personal. So, thus, my complaint,
As to the rest of your post ��" I also have been in politics since 18 ��" that whole paragraph you wrote could be me.
You take issue with my abstaining ��" that is fine, but when you ask me if I have given up, and why I put myself here, I would say the answer to that is that I find disdain, and distrust coming from our candidate, and I would like some answers and accountability from the people I supported. Giving up is different from abstaining. What you see as giving up, I do not. I never give up.
As for Adam ��" that was a personal assault, and no, I don’t think we are supposed to be trying to “Out” people. Google
But I just don’t think the purpose here is to be that paranoid and yes ��" mean spirited and googling folks and posting stuff. It’s a little off base to me particularly with his nasty tone. So ��" you can justify it, but I found it entirely offensive that he would ambush her in that way ��" especially considering we are all here because of the FISA vote.
I just wish you could understand and see that living here in NYC, having watched people use the city I love as an excuse for all their bad behavior in and out of government because of 911 is no longer acceptable to me and many many Americans relating to politics. Don’t forget ��" we have been living in a “PC, NO dissent” world since Reagan. You see it as cutting off my nose, I see it as cutting off the DNC’s nose who has taken just about everything off the platform I care about.
So ��" my dissent is one that is nothing personal, but no, I don’t like how you approached that email, and I would never write to you saying Rosie,
“PULLLLEEASSE! You agree with her, etc” ��" along with all of you other assumptions about elitism. Again ��" I was trying to run interference between you Adam and she and you.
I am beginning to think that was a waste of time because you just continue to seem to dislike me for whatever reason.
That’s life, as they say:)
L,
SUZ
On 7/16/08 8:41 PM, "John and Rosie"
As I stated before when I am moderating I don't respond to posts on the list. The only exception is to let you know the posts are coming through, or if we have had a problem with some.
Now I am on my time, just another member like you, not on duty again until Larry is done.
I read every post that comes through, and I saw Suz that you were unhappy with the word Please emphasized. Do you really believe that is abusive? Come on, if you were standing in front of me I would have said it the way I put it out there.
The rest of the post concerned how I saw your response, just as your posts are how you see Linda's posts.
Just so you understand who I am, I have been involved in politics since I was about 18 years old, probably even longer considering my Dad's influence. You, I am sure read my post about my Dad and how I feel about this country. I have supported Barack since I knew he was going to run. My hubby and I have donated to him every month, we are both retired so our income is limited but we did what we felt was the right thing. I made calls to several other states during the primaries, and did the same in my state.
I am not bragging, I am telling you about me, so you understand that I am as disappointed as any one here about his vote. But I will not cut of my nose to spite my face. Old term I know but then I am past 60 so I can use it.
You can abstain from voting for him as you said in one of your posts, but again if that is the plan why continue here, if you have given up totally on him then why continue to put yourself here were his supporters are?
When Linda asked you why don't you leave, it may have seemed rude to you, but ya know if we constantly read things like you have posted, your distain, distrust and total lack of respect for Barack then I would have to ask you the same question? Its not rude to ask that question it seems perfectly logical to me.
Linda was offended that Adam posted the information about the petition she signed. Why be offended, if you signed it in good faith and you believed in what you signed be proud of who you are, but don't jump down the guys neck that found it. See he to saw something in all Linda's posts, and his curiosity got him and he searched out information. Isn't that what we are suppose to do, search out information and try and understand why people do what they do?
So you can report me to the powers that be, you can complain that I abused or bashed or flamed you with the word PLEASE drawn out for expression. But again I say what is wrong with that word.
Rosie
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Message: 29
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/VwgGM8Cn
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:41:57 -0400
From: Gene Pearce
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Iran
Message-ID: <1032124017-1216410116-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1306650192-@bxe149.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
I couldn't disagree with you more.
History has show that Democracies do not work. They only work for a short time and during that time, the rich get richer and richer. The argument of the founding fathers was that democracies, as we've learned throughout history, have existed for as short of a time, as their destruction were tragic.
I sent an E-mail earlier this morning with quotes from the Federalist Papers. Since turn around is 24 hours it seems, take a look if you can.
The common person is ignorant. Especially nowadays when both parents must work in order to provide the basic necessities. Schools fail to teach kids the real history of America. The educated have to know the foundations of our government, and the origin of its parts in order to realize we're about to retire our great nation to the history books of the future. Every war prevented the U.S. From evolving as a nation. The time of the 'enlightenment" is losing light.
Thanks
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-----Original Message-----
From: Junk3555@cs.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:08:05
To:
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: RE: Re: Iran
In the best case scenario, democracy is not imposed on the people but it arises naturally from the interaction between them.
It doesn't mean it cannot be imposed: Democracy WAS imposed on both Japan and West Germany after World War II.
In terms of initiating a revolution, being a foreign power, although I don't think they initiated it, they supported and without their support that revolution wouldn't have succeeded. They being the French and the revolution being the American Revolution. BTW, the French were not even a democracy then but a Absolutist Kingdom, the one before the French Revolution. So yes in some cases Foreign Intervention is what's needed to kick start a Democracy as the American Revolution shows.
The Eastern European democracies arguably were helped by some foreign intervention in the form of a Cold War.
That didn't mean that Washington consented to any home invaded or some kind of deprivation of liberty because of the French intervention.
I do agree that for people that could be facing War Crimes to imply they didn't intend to break the rules of war is unacceptable.
So in conclusion, I don't think a good idea for our government to be in the business of regulating other countries. But given the tendency (just a tendency) of democracies to be peaceful, if we see a democratic development in a country, we should support it, maybe express our strong disagreement with some thing another country does but not to the point of disrupting democracy as was done with Mossadegh.
Gene Pearce
>I always thought of Democracy as being the "Choice of the People" and to impose Democracy, or initiate a revolution, being a foreign power, was contrary to the Principles.
>
>By approving of forced democracy, you've just consented to having your home invaded, and your children given the authority of legislating your actions, and appropriations for their own expenses you must provide for.
>
>And for people that could be facing War Crimes to imply they didn't intend to break the rules of war is unacceptable.
>
>What if the Soviet Union first had nuclear weapons, and shared as much with their allies.
>
>Would we accept restriction on our ability to support sciences and explore its uses for cheaper energy? Americans forget that Nuclear weapons is what caused the Cold War. It not only threatened, but it protected. No reasonable person would risk attacking a country that has nuclear weapons, because of the consequences it has. But those at the top must realize that you catch more flies with honey, than you do with Yellow Cake.
>
>Without trust, you can never have peace. And as long as we have WMD, there can never be a true trust.
>
>Our Federal Gov't was never granted the power to Regulate other Countries, nor to make war. Only to declare war. A people need to free themselves from Tyrannical rule. Having made the choice, retrospect shows that lives that were lost were by choice of a better existance. Everytime we have imposed force to 'free' a people from their bondage, It has lead to the death of many, including those we supposedly wished to free.
>
>Problem is, which is our intention? Freedom of Tyranny? Or freedom from life?
>
>We expect children to respect their parents. This being that they do not have the knowledge or strength themselves. The same can be said about our involvements Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.
>Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Junk3555@cs.com
>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:20:39
>To:
>Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: Iran
>I agree that not supporting Mossadegh was an error but you seem to be blaming America for what's going on in Iran and saying the Ayatollahs just happpened to be the only ones available. As a matter of fact, the Shah was deposed by a broad coalition which included secularists, socialists, and others.
>
>Khomeini was the most ruthless of them all and basically killed anyone that standed in his way to absolute power of the mullahs. So the mullahs are responsible for what's going on in Iran not America for following a misguided policy regarding democratic regimes in Iran.
>
>As a counter-example, we did support the Apartheid government in South-Africa probably for the same reasons we supported the Shah. Anti-communist, supporter of capitalism, no nationalization of the country's resources. Following your arguments, South Africa today should have a savage little group of sadists is power with some Absolute Leader having the ultimate word and killing homosexuals and women that show some hair. Rather than that, the South-Africans have created a model of rule of law, separation of powers and a viable democratic government.
>
>So America may have "some" blame on what's going on Iran but not even 10 percent. The blame rests squarely on the mullahs.
>
>
>Matty Sarro
>
>>Actually, there was democracy in Iran in the 1950's. Mohommad Mossadegh was
>>the Prime Minister of the country - a secularist who was democratically
>>elected. He was also an ally of the US. Until, of course, he nationalized
>>oil. His reasoning was that western oil companies were able to take
>>advantage of Iran in the post WWI era because they were wards to the US, UK,
>>and France. Because it cost US oil investors a large amount of money the
>>kind, peaceful man who was touted as a great US ally suddenly became an
>>enemy.
>>
>>Suddenly the CIA, FBI, and oil investors wanted him out. So, the CIA and MI6
>>launched "Operation Ajax" (feel free to look it up). They hired gang members
>>to storm Tehran and protest against Mossadegh and basically spread
>>misinformation about him. Following them, the CIA aided General Zahedi, and
>>his branch of militant loyalists to stage a coup. This led to popular riots,
>>and ultimately Mossadegh's being overthrown. He was placed under house
>>arrest where he died. The US reinstated the Shah Pahlevi as ruler of the
>>country who basically served as a puppet for the US and UK. His first act?
>>De-nationalizing Iranian oil. Further, the CIA trained a branch of Iranian
>>secret police known as SAVAK. The Savak basically kidnapped any relatives of
>>Mossadegh, secularist supporters, or proponents of democracy and had them
>>tortured, and killed. This lack of secularists primed Iran for the Islamic
>>Republic takeover when the Ayatollah Khomenii took over. All of the
>>secularists who would have stood against them were dead, or in hiding for
>>fear of their lives.
>>
>>We created Iran as it is today. They were a democracy, we destroyed it to
>>put in a pro-west dictatorship solely because of oil. Learn some history.
>>Any idea that we're there to create a democracy is, for all intense
>>purposes, a load of bull feces.
>>
>>Iran works just fine as a nation right now. A large amount of what actually
>>goes on there is overblown by the media. Yes, there are police of vice and
>>virtue - elected almost universally from college men. Basically, if you're
>>having a party, they'll ask everyone to go home. Occasionally if you're
>>doing something really bad or you're a constant offender, you'll be taken in
>>for questioning.
>>
>>Some of that has changed recently, as the country is starting to polarize
>>under US pressures and, for lack of a better word, bullying.
>>
>>I had two Iranian college professors for my Middle Eastern Cultures and
>>Middle Eastern Politics classes - some of the most eye-opening classes I've
>>ever taken.
>>
>>My point is, Iran was a democracy. The US destroyed it. There's a book you
>>should read - "All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle
>>Eastern Terror."
>>
>>-Matthew, PA
>>
>>On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM,
>>
>>> There's no democracy in Iran. If McCain or anyone wants to encourage
>>> democracy in Iran I think it's a good idea. Basically the power is in the
>>> hands of the Supreme Leader (I thinks that's the official name). Then, they
>>> run a charade of electing people that have some minimal power. Not democracy
>>> in my book.
>>>
>>> But this has nothing to do with FISA or the 4th ammendment. Except there
>>> s no 4th ammendment in Iran.
>>>
>>> If McCain is trying to force democracy in IRan, that would not work. It has
>>> to come from the bottom up. Problem is that the bottom is so pwerless in
>>> Iran that is not an easy solution. China the same, there's no real
>>> democracy. I guess it shows us where we're going.
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Message: 30
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/fwgGM8BV
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:58:33 -0400
From: Lane Gallagher
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Fwd: Constituent Response From Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison
Message-ID: <402212.32895.qm@web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Yeah, they can really be so clueless. Including Obama. It is either that they are free of all clues, or they are out and out lying.
We have idiots and crooks in charge of our government. WE WANT CHANGE!
We want change.
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, with Congressional
Approval, the National Security Agency may have read this email
without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any
judicial or legislative oversight.
--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Craig Nazor
From: Craig Nazor
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Fwd: Constituent Response From Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 12:50 PM
All,
Here is what I got from one of my Senators after complaining about her vote on the FISA bill. It appears to be a stock response. Can they really be so clueless?
Craig Nazor
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison"
Date: July 17, 2008 4:50:07 PM CDT
To: c.nazor@earthlink.net
Subject: Constituent Response From Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison
Dear Dr. Nazor:
Thank you for contacting me regarding the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. I welcome your thoughts and comments on this issue.
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978 provides the basic framework for the use of electronic surveillance in the context of foreign intelligence gathering. Over time, FISA has been amended to expand intelligence gathering to physical searches and access to certain business records. Following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the USA PATRIOT Act made significant changes to some FISA provisions in order to aid in the capture of suspected terrorists.
On July 11, 2008, the President signed into law H.R. 6304, the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. This bill updates FISA to close a critical gap relating to the surveillance of suspected terrorists and to address limitations on surveillance created by a 2007 FISA Court decision. The bill also includes important safeguards to protect privacy and c ivil liberties, including procedures to prevent the dissemination of information about U.S. citizens that has been collected incidentally during certain surveillance activities. H.R. 6304 passed the Senate with my support by a bipartisan vote of 69-28.
One contentious provision in the bill allows a federal district court to rule on whether there was "substantial evidence" that electronic service providers who may have cooperated with the federal government in its warrantless surveillance program after 9/11, received written assurances that the program was legal and authorized by the President. If the court rules that there was substantial evidence of assurances, the existing class action lawsuits that many of these companies face will be dismissed. It is important to note that FISA has provided for many years that suits against electronic communications service providers cannot be maintained if there is a court order authorizing the surveillance or the companie s received written certification that their cooperation in surveillance activities was legal. Because the federal government asserted its executive privilege in the pending lawsuits in order to protect sources and methods of intelligence
collection, the companies' ability to provide evidence to defend their alleged conduct has been limited.
I recognize that some oppose liability protection, but I believe that it is untenable to allow lawsuits to proceed at the same time that we limit the ability of the defendant companies to produce evidence critical to their defense. The potential liability awards that might result could be catastrophic, negatively affecting the broader economy and signaling to these companies, and to other private entities that we may need to rely upon in the War on Terror, that their cooperation carries major risks.
Please know that I will continue to work with my colleagues in Congress to safeguard the security of our nation while upholding our personal privacy rights and civil liberties.
I appreciate hearing from you, and I hope that you will not hesitate to keep in touch on any issue of concern to you.
Sincerely,
Kay Bailey Hutchison
United States Senator
284 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-5922 (tel)
202-224-0776 (fax)
http://hutchison.senate.gov
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Message: 31
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/mwgGM8BK
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:58:50 -0400
From: Gene Pearce
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: RE: RE: Re: RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
Message-ID: <1428480935-1216411128-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2108637255-@bxe149.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
As I mentioned before, "ex post facto" means "after the fact". Regardless of how it has been commonly used in law, it means laws cannot have an effect on actions in the past. It wasn't absolutely necessary to include the phrase, since Congress is prevented from acting against the Constitutional Principles. In this case, Justice is thwarted by the law, therefore the law in Unconstitutional.
I wish I had about $100,000 in the bank so I could go around to the various campaigns for house and Senate and explain why certain Incumbants are destroying this country.
Perhaps I should setup a fund.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bryce
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:43:23
To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: RE: Re: RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
EX POST FACTO refers to passing a law making something illegal after it has been legal to do that thing, but also implies that perpetrators of the action when it was legal can later be prosecuted. Hand-held cell phones were legal while driving in California before July; the EX POST clause of the constitution prohibits proscecution now for that action done in June while it was legal. The communication companies actions were illegal at the time they were perpetrated. I don't know if the new FISA law now makes that legal. But even if it is still illegal, the new law does grant them immunity from prosecution for past illegal actionsl I think the suit by the ACLU is testing the legality of this EX POST FACTO granting of immunity.
Bryce Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: Chaun Holdsworth
To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:44 AM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: RE: Re: RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
I could be wrong but I thought NO EX POST FACTO meant that they could not make a law that make things illegal retro active.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:28:36 -0400
To: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
From: laura.schneider@mchsi.com
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
Gene, I will also look again. I didn't remember that, but it sounds reasonable.
I have put your e-mail on the DNC blog to see if anyone there has any information as well.
Thanks for this!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gene Pearce [mailto:Tritium24@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:26 AM
To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
Just to comment, The Constitution clearly states NO EX POST FACTO laws can be passed by Congress. It's clearly stated and discussed in the Convention papers. And I have to say, I am disturbed no media has picked up on this.
Ex Post Facto means retroactive.
We need a true change. That include a gutting out of the existing.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nizar Nassar
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:52:24 -0400
To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
I suppose some of us are still irrational (and some day we may grow up). Some of us, just perhaps, see a pattern with the FISA thing be at the end of the string (or perhaps not at the end of the string, and more yet to come). I think we will be watching, very closely. Senator Obama had our votes before, but now he really has to EARN them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chip Pitts [mailto:chip.pitts@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:19 PM
To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
I can't tell you all how heart ening it is to read thoughtful comments like this from someone like Russell, who wasn't engaged, feels betrayed, but is still very engaged and also recognizes the cardinal importance of never losing hope. Whether it's for this candidate, or for the values that he stood for, there's no doubt that we've gotta keep on fighting.
Chip
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Russell J. Pape [mailto:russ@russpape.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:06 PM
To: chip.pitts@att.net; 'Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right'
Subject: RE: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
My feelings, like those of Bryan K, seem to become a bit more rational as the hours go by. Some of the level-headed postings have helped.
I have read the article whose link you provided in one of your earlier posts today. I will attach it here because it offered more of the calm, nuanced perspective that I need to hear, and perhaps others do as well.
http://www.truthout.org/article/obama-and-progressive-base
In trying to maintain a measured perspective of the big picture, and in considering working for Obama with even more fervor than before - anything to make sure McCain is not elected, while giving the Democrats at least the opportunity to work towards repairing much of the damage that has been done - I find myself facing one large obstacle: I want some sense of acknowledgement from Obama that he at least recognizes the importance of what we 23,000 group members are so enraged about.
I suppose that there is a bit of feeling that I (perhaps we) want to punish him for backing down on his promises. After the terrible, terrible way that Bush and Cheney have trampled all over our Constitution and our rights during these past 7 years, after the way that they thumbed their noses at us by pardoning Libby, or ignoring subpoenas, or not giving a damn about global warming or the environment, I had put complete hope and trust in Obama. He told us...things are going to change! Individual liberties before corporate greed and all the other high ideals. Now he let us down.
How are we supposed to feel now? He pulled the rug out from all of us. We have to go back to work to get him elected, but I don't like feeling that I'm taken for granted. I don't like knowing that they made a calculated strategic decision and that they could afford to offend some of us because they needed to appease the larger audience.
I know that he is not going to apologize and admit that he made mistake. The press and McCain are already starting to zero in on the flip/flops. I have to listen to those who are calm and rational: suck it up, swallow the grief and feeling of being insulted, and get on with the job of not just electing Obama, but get busy in being more a part of the Democratic party and fight towards restoring our country. I have been looking for Obama to lead us out of this mess, but the real power...as his campaign has demonstrated...is us. Fighting the corporate stranglehold on our country, fighting the politicized judges, fighting the fat cats who care only about themselves, will not be easy, but it is a fight that we must be willing to take on.
My email box has been filled with hundreds of emails a day for the past week so from this group. I am an older guy, who was never too involved in the past (until 2006), but this is good. I am involved now and despite the disappointment, I am glad to be part of these 23,000 members. I've seen a lot of good stuff come through, lots of new ideas, new connections. I believe, as others have expressed, that if we continue forward we can change things. We don't necessarily need to leave it all up to Obama.
From: Chip Pitts [mailto:chip.pitts@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:35 PM
To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] FW: INFO: Great blog on FISA aftermath
FYI -- I thought this was an intriguing response to a comment on one of my recent MyBo blog postings:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan Long
posted following reply:
Dissent at All Levels | Report to Admin
Reply
By Bryan K. Long 0 seconds ago
I think it is fair to say that Senator Obama and most O bama supporters are opposed to the Republican tactic of silencing dissent by calling it unpatriotic. We recognize that it is the responsibility of every citizen to speak out against our Government's actions when we think those actions are against our nation's best interests. Similarly, it is the responsibility of every Obama supporter to speak out when the Senator takes positions or actions which we feel betray the best interests of the nation. Accountability can not be delayed until after the election; we cannot afford to sacrifice principles for political expediency and we must demand the same from Senator Obama. It is true that we must not give up on him -- yesterday I was ready to, but today with cooler head I know he is still much better than the alternative. I disagree with Mr. P itts only when he suggests that many might just give up without speaking out: the truth is that the 23,000 who signed onto the Get FISA
Right group are among the most informed and ardent of Oba ma's supporters. Despite their anger, they will vote for him anyway. But their ardor has been cooled, and they will be watching Senator Obama with more dubious eyes.
ORIGINAL COMMENT TO WHICH THIS IS RESPONDING:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/PPPs/gGxD44
& nbsp;
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Message: 32
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/9wgGM8GR
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:11:49 -0400
From: Stanley Shapiro
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <110C9121-3923-45E7-8B5E-74AEC81F48EB@comcast.net>
OK, you don't accept this crap. So vote for McCain who will take
your oath, and will then appoint judges like Scalia and Roberts who
think if the President does it, it's the law. We will then have a
federal judiciary that thinks the Constitution includes the second
amendment and little else, and we'll all be able to brag about how
righteous we were in not supporting Obama. And that's how fascism
begins.
Stan Shapiro
On Jul 18, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Lane Gallagher wrote:
> It is disrespectful as well as insulting for Obama to expect his
> supporters to accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected
> and I�ll do...er, whatever.
>
>
> He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our
> problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the
> Constitution and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials.
>
>
> All we are asking and demanding is that he do what he has already
> sworn to do:
>
>
> Upon taking office, Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they
> will "support and defend the Constitution." The oath is required
> by the Constitution; the wording is prescribed by law.
>
> Enough of this Lawlessness. Instead of asking us to help get
> another law-breaker into office, why not ask him to stop breaking
> the law. We want the change he promised and we want it NOW.
lane
> Warning, due to a rogue president and a lazy, greedy and cowardly
> congress, this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no
> recourse because your rights have been stripped from you.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
>
> From: Dominick
> Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot
> OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
> To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
>
> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
>
> This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group
> as a whole received! Please read it and let's move forward to get
> this man elected to the office of the Presidency. We need him as
> much as he needs us.
> Thanks You-Dominick
>
>
> Dear Friend,
>
> Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about
> this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama
> below.
> We appreciate hearing from you.
> Sincerely,
> Obama for America,
>
> ---
> Given the grave threats that we face, our national security
> agencies must
> have the capability to gather intelligence and track down
> terrorists before
> they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and
> civil
> liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that
> the Bush
> Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications
> companies,
> has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by
> intercepting
> the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or
> the
> required court orders.
>
> That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act,
> which
> expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
> independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of
> innocent
> Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity
> to those
> who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
>
> After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that,
> while far
> from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
> Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
> against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal
> program of
> warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
> criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct
> surveillance -
> making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and
> disregard
> the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-
> establishes
> basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
>
> It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the
> Senate
> three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
> accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
> unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
> Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine
> what took
> place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
> forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots
> movement of
> Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
> America Act.
>
> It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats
> we face,
> providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
> safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise,
> but do
> so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
> program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with
> the
> Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect
> the lives
> - and the liberty - of the American people.
> Paid for by Obama for America
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get
> FISA Right
> This email was sent from Dominick dominick@sonic.net
> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
> my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
> listserv-remove
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get
> FISA Right
> This email was sent from Lane Gallagher islalane@yahoo.com
> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
> my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
> listserv-remove
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 33
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/mwgGM8Mp
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:18:51 -0400
From: Stanley Shapiro
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: N-Obama
Message-ID:
Narcissism is a good word for it, but really some other word needs to
be invented. It's not just love of themselves that they embody, but
love of their moral purity and superiority. Of course, those who are
pure need never be dismayed by facts, like the fact that their
attitude will undermine the very principles they insist they're
seeking to advance, by enabling a third Bush term.
Stan Shapiro
On Jul 13, 2008, at 9:20 PM, George Goodburn wrote:
> Thanks, Frank.
> The sheer idiocy and narcissism of these people is breathtaking.
> Today, when rain interrupted Sunday morning basketball, we got to
> talking and I learned that a guy my age has a nephew just back from
> his 4th tour who killed himself down at Camp Lejune. Barack won,
> she conceded and to allow intercine warfare at the convention to
> repeat 1968, in my view, borders on immoral.
> On Jul 13, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Frank Ploof wrote:
>
>> George, better read this too: http://
>> www.thedenvergroup.blogspot.com/
>>
>> ----- Origi nal Message ----
>> From: George M. Goodburn
>> To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA
>> Right
>> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:44:22 PM
>> Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
>> Re: RE: N-Obama
>>
>> Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. No way party
>> would survive such shenanigans.
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Perrin Lam
>> To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA
>> Right
>> ReplyTo: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@g roups.barackobama.com
>> Sent: Jul 13, 2008 7:20 PM
>> Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
>> RE: N-Obama
>>
>> Will Hillary's vote allow for a coup against Obama during the
>> convention, a roll call vote that could upend Obama?
>>
>> On Jul 13, 2008, at 4:11 PM, George M. Goodburn wrote:
>>
>> > No doubt about it. Hilary's vote will go down in our history as a
>> > singular example of a profile in political courage. Breathtaking
>> > indeed.
>> > ------Original Message------
>> > From: Alan
>> > To: Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA
>> > Right
>> > ReplyTo: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> > Sent: Jul 13, 2008 6:57 PM
>> > Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: RE: N-
>> Obama
>> >
>> > On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 01:54 -0400, Andrew Davey wrote:
>> >> OK, OK, will everyone PLEASE calm down!
>> >>
>> >> First off, please don't bash Hillary here. Some of us here were
>> >> Hillary supporters during the primaries, and many more of us
>> >> supported
>> >> other candidates. It's not helpful for us when the "primary
>> wars" are
>> >> relived and we have to deal with the same bulls**t hostility that
>> >> turned us away from Obama months back.
>> >
>> > Actually Hillary voting against FISA was one of the best things she
>> > has
>> > ever done. I am grateful for her actually doing the right thing.
>> > On an
>> > anti-FISA list people should be thanking her, not bashing her. (If
>> > this
>> > was a video game list, it would be different however...)
>> > This email was sent to 2993 members of Senator Obama - Please Vote
>> > NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
>> > This email was sent from Alan alan@clueserver.org
>> > Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
>> > PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> > Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
>> > PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> > Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
>> > my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
>> > listserv-remove
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > This email was sent to 2992 members of Senator Obama - Please Vote
>> > NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
>> > This email was sent from George M. Goodburn georgegoodburn@mac.com
>> > Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
>> > PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> > Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
>> > PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> > Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
>> > my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
>> > listserv-remove
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This email was sent to 2991 members of Senator Obama - Please Vote
>> NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
>> This email was sent from Perrin Lam plamcopy@ix.netcom.com
>> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
>> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
>> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
>> my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
>> listserv-remove
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> This email was sent to 2992 members of Senator Obama - Please Vote
>> NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
>> This email was sent from George M. Goodburn georgegoodburn@mac.com
>> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
>> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
>> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
>> my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
>> listserv-remove
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This email was sent to 2991 members of Senator Obama - Please Vote
>> NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
>> This email was sent from Frank Ploof ploof1@att.net
>> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
>> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
>> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
>> my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
>> listserv-remove
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to 2978 members of Senator Obama - Please Vote
> NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right
> This email was sent from George Goodburn georgegoodburn@mac.com
> Listserv email address: SenatorObama-
> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-
> PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://
> my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/
> listserv-remove
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 34
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/cwgGM8jV
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:28:08 -0400
From: George M. Goodburn
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: RE: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <1423266759-1216412884-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-620609035-@bxe006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Stir it up.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Schneider
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:20:39
To:
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Re: For those who forgot
OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Lane, you have it in a nutshell. The attempt to divert focus from this issue to electing any Dem candidate at any cost is concerning. It's not just about winning an election, it's about how we will govern the country once elected. We need to get Obama's attention and a real response that indicates he understands the gravity of what he did and is committed to fixing the problem immediately, not just waiting until after the election, when our efforts will be dissipated and our attention diverted. All the mundane issues that face us in the next presidential term are important. But everything our government does hinges on a vibrant, viable Constitution.
Laura Schneider
laura.schneider@mchsi.com
WARNING: Due to a rogue, imperial president and by the use of Presidential Executive Orders, presidential signing statements and a absurdly broad use of executive privilege, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency, the FBI or any intelligence agency under the jurisdiction of the Department of Intelligence or Homeland Security may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. Thanks to an ineffective and cowardly Congress, they may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, the Vice President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives.
_____
From: Lane Gallagher [mailto:islalane@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:30 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
It is disrespectful as well as insulting for Obama to expect his supporters to accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected and I�ll do...er, whatever.
He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials.
All we are asking and demanding is that he do what he has already sworn to do:
Upon taking office, Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the Constitution
Enough of this Lawlessness. Instead of asking us to help get another law-breaker into office, why not ask him to stop breaking the law. We want the change he promised and we want it NOW.
lane
Warning, due to a rogue president and a lazy, greedy and cowardly congress, this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no recourse because your rights have been stripped from you.
--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
From: Dominick
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
Thanks You-Dominick
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
We appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Obama for America,
---
Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting
the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the
required court orders.
That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which
expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent
Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those
who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far
from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of
warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -
making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard
the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes
basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate
three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took
place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of
Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
America Act.
It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face,
providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do
so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the
Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives
- and the liberty - of the American people.
----------------------
Paid for by Obama for America
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
This email was sent from Dominick dominick@sonic.net
Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-remove
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
This email was sent from Lane Gallagher islalane@yahoo.com
Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-remove
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to 2588 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
This email was sent from Laura Schneider laura.schneider@mchsi.com
Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-remove
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 35
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/nwgGM8j3
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:29:20 -0400
From: George M. Goodburn
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Sedition Act of 1918
Message-ID: <1553213197-1216412956-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1687876325-@bxe006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Which was repealed.
------Original Message------
From: nualolo
To: President@ob3.colo
To: Obama@ob3.colo
To: Senator
ReplyTo: Senator
Sent: Jul 18, 2008 4:20 PM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Sedition Act of 1918
Just another thought,
In my eyes this is wreaking of the same kind of corruption as the Sedition
Act. Remember that?
If you don't read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918
Bernard
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to 2588 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
This email was sent from nualolo nualolo@earthlink.net
Listserv email address: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Your reply will be sent to: SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
Unsubscribe or change your email settings: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-remove
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Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
------------------------------
Message: 36
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/RwgGM8jL
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:31:31 -0400
From: George M. Goodburn
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <1399651836-1216413082-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1718437483-@bxe006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
You go! If you can forment enough insanity, you can elect McCain.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: nualolo
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:24:10
To:
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: For those who forgot
OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Lane,
I agree. I am pretty tired of hearing from the group we have to get over
it and move on - or that they accept this Obama form letter as a
response.
I am right there with ya buddy. I dont accept that way of thinking at all.
All we are asking is for him to live up to his sworn oath not only as a
senator but also as a CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER!
Does Obama really think it is ok to anger voters like those of us here? I
guess he does. We will see what happens come November.
Best,
Bernard
On 7/18/08 2:30 PM, "Lane Gallagher"
> It is disrespectful as well as insulting for Obama to expect his supporters
> to accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected and Ill do...er,
> whatever. He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our
> problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the Constitution
> and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials. All we are asking and
> demanding is that he do what he has already sworn to do: Upon taking office,
> Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the
> Constitution
> ." The oath is required by the Constitution; the wording is prescribed by
> law. Enough of this Lawlessness. Instead of asking us to help get another
> law-breaker into office, why not ask him to stop breaking the law. We want the
> change he promised and we want it NOW. lane
>
> Warning, due to a rogue president and a lazy, greedy and cowardly congress,
> this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no recourse because your
> rights have been stripped from you.
> --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
>> From: Dominick
>> Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS
>> repsonse to FISA
>> To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
>>
>> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
>>
>> This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole
>> received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to
>> the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
>> Thanks You-Dominick
>>
>>
>> Dear Friend,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this
>> important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
>> We appreciate hearing from you.
>> Sincerely,
>> Obama for America,
>>
>> ---
>> Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
>> have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
>> they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
>> liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
>> Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
>> has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting
>> the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the
>> required court orders.
>>
>> That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which
>> expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient
>> independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent
>> Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those
>> who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.
>>
>> After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far
>> from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America
>> Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight
>> against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of
>> warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing
>> criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance -
>> making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard
>> the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes
>> basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.
>>
>> It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate
>> three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full
>> accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were
>> unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the
>> Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took
>> place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going
>> forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of
>> Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect
>> America Act.
>>
>> It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face,
>> providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate
>> safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do
>> so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the
>> program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the
>> Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives
>> - and the liberty - of the American people.
>>
>> ----------------------
>> Paid for by Obama for America
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
>> This email was sent from Dominick dominick@sonic.net
>> Listserv email address:
>> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Your reply will be sent to:
>> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your email settings:
>> http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/lists
>> erv-remove
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to 2592 members of President Obama, Please Get FISA Right
> This email was sent from Lane Gallagher islalane@yahoo.com
> Listserv email address:
> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
> Your reply will be sent to:
> SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA@groups.barackobama.com
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> http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listse
> rv-remove
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 37
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/xwgGM8jX
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:32:53 -0400
From: George M. Goodburn
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Message-ID: <1399651836-1216413166-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1904152846-@bxe006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
You go! If you can forment enough insanity, you can elect McCain.
------Original Message------
From: nualolo
To: President@ob3.colo
To: Obama@ob3.colo
To: Senator
ReplyTo: Senator
Sent: Jul 18, 2008 4:24 PM
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Re: Re: For those who forgotOBAMAS repsonse to FISA
Lane,
I agree. I am pretty tired of hearing from the group we have to "get over it" and "move on" - or that they accept this Obama form letter as a response.
I am right there with ya buddy. I don't accept that way of thinking at all. All we are asking is for him to live up to his sworn oath not only as a senator but also as a CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER!
Does Obama really think it is ok to anger voters like those of us here? I guess he does. We will see what happens come November.
Best,
Bernard
On 7/18/08 2:30 PM, "Lane Gallagher"
It is disrespectful as well as insulting for Obama to expect his supporters to accept this crap. The SAME crap. Just get me elected and Ill do...er, whatever. He has not indicated by one word or syllable that he hears our problem. He is ignoring those of us who demand support for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights from our elected officials. All we are asking and demanding is that he do what he has already sworn to do: Upon taking office, Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the Constitution
Warning, due to a rogue president and a lazy, greedy and cowardly congress, this message has been intercepted by spies. You have no recourse because your rights have been stripped from you.
--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dominick
From: Dominick
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] For those who forgot OBAMAS repsonse to FISA
To: President@ob3.colo, Obama@ob3.colo, "Please Get FISA Right"
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:00 PM
This is the response I received from Obama and one that the Group as a whole received! Please read it and let's move forward to get this man elected to the office of the Presidency. We need him as much as he needs us.
Thanks You-Dominick
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.
We appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Obama for America,
---
Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must
have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before
they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil
liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush
Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies,
has
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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Message: 38
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/XwgGM8GH
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:35:21 -0400
From: Diana McGinness
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: RE: Immunity and Expost Facto
Message-ID: <231CA47DD36049CEB6EA8D786BF9AC49@LAPTOP>
Wasn't there a case not too long ago where a kid had been convicted of rape
(GA?) when both he and the female were underage and he was convicted to 20
years(?). At the time the legislature was changing the laws...but it was
not clear (or I don't remember) if he would be freed.
Anyone remember more details than me?
_____
From: Laura Schneider [mailto:laura.schneider@mchsi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:02 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] RE: Immunity and Expost Facto
I think you have it about right. The other constitutional/legal issue is
that this law treats telecoms differently from other companies or entities.
Special treatment is against the constitution at least in spirit (there is a
provision saying that royalty or class does not provide privilege or special
treatment and is illegal). So, does anyone have any info on that aspect? I
would be interested in hearing about it. I haven't had a chance to go back
over the Constitution and case law yet.
_____
From: Ron for Obama Adams Cty [mailto:Ron4Obama@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:19 PM
To: President@ob3.colo; Obama@ob3.colo; Please Get FISA Right
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Immunity and Expost Facto
Greetings all,
First let me make it clear that my understanding of the law is somewhat
limited, that being said here are some thoughts about the principle of
expost facto laws and how they may or may not apply to the immunity
provisions in the new FISA law.
Clearly the principle of expost facto is that if someone takes an action
today then you can not turn around and make that action illegal
retroactively tomorrow or in other words criminalize a past action that was
legal at the time the action was taken.
There is precedent for laws being passed to decriminalize actions that were
at the time the actions were taken were illegal that have resulted in
convicted persons being freed.
HOWEVER, the current situation seems to be without precedent, whereas
immunity has been granted for past actions of the telecoms, those actions
remain illegal so whereas the principle of expost facto laws is fairly
clear, what remains in question, at least in my mind, if an immunity has
been granted for a past action (that was illegal at he time the action was
taken) can immunity be rescinded considering that the past action was never
legalized?
If anyone with a shaper understanding of the law than mine could shine some
light on this I would be glad to hear from you.
Best regards,
Ron
PS- Barack Obama will continue to have my full support though I'm not at all
thrilled with his FISA vote. The line of Principles and Practicality is a
tough enough one for the average person often times and I expect
extraordinarily more difficult for someone in Obama's position. I would
prefer that our already damaged constitution await repairs under an Obama
administration than to risk the Whitehouse and the Congress falling further
into Republican hands. In the end I have decided to place my trust in
Barack taking appropriate action in regard to FISA if we can get him into
the Whitehouse with a significant supportive majority. The other option
makes me shudder to think of McCain in there, further eviscerating the
constitution, driving the economy further into the ground, privatizing
social security and an endless commitment to troops in Iraq.
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Message: 39
Original Message: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA/listserv-message/NwgGM8DZ
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:24:34 -0400
From: Larry Craig
Subject: [SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA] Listserv Transition to Announcement Only & More
Message-ID:
Dear List Participants,Due to the overwhelming volume of messages generated within this "President Obama, Please Get FISA Right" group, this listserv is being transitioned to an announcement-only list, and we will be moving email-based discussion to Google groups, which has better tools for handling such large scale discussion lists. This means you will no longer be able to post messages to this listserv. If you wish to continue these discussions, you will need to sign up for our new discussion group on Google groups.We realize how important this discussion group is to the 2,600+ who have subscribed. As such, we will make this transition as quickly as possible. * Please remain signed up here on this listserv to ensure that you will receive announcements and important news about FISA in the future. Most important, we send the information on how to sign up for the new email discussion group to this list. * We would also like to encourage you to use our new web-based discussion
forum at http://www.GetFISAright.com/discuss - Registration is free and easy. * You can also sign up for our eNewsletter at http://www.GetFISAright.comLast, it is important to revisit the purpose of our group. While opposing the FISA 2008 Amendment (FAA) that was passed recently by Congress and signed into law by Bush, we support Senator Obama as part of our mission. The name of the MyBO group was changed from Senator Obama to President Obama to remind all members and to make this point clear to the media. This group exists to: * Promote critical, positive thinking about Senator Obama's candidacy and progressive ideals. * Open a dialog on the new FISA law, its aftermath, and how we can ensure it is revisited in the future.
Sincerely, Larry Craig (from Oregon) on behalf of "Get FISA Right"
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